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Spence did you use music from The Legend of Zelda in the preview clip? I thought I recognised it!
Duel of the Fates (* unfinished project *) — Page 6
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Well, following up on my comments now that I get another minute, I can give other specifics about that 8 minutes.
I love this as the opening. I just had a couple conceptual concerns. First, I remember almost all of that footage from the trailer for the game, so without trims and changes I couldn't slip the feeling that it was a game trailer.
The human faces all look like animation. As good as they are, they don't compare with the real thing. I think it would help if the close-ups could be more limited.
There's a piece of advice I got about working with cgi that I'd love to see applied here: never use a cgi shot that you couldn't "do" practically. Here's how it was explained to me: Cgi is great for creating realistic shots of impossible things. But when the cgi "camera moves" are overdone you immediately see they couldn't be done if the shot WASN'T cgi. Then the cgi undermines its own sense of realism. There are a few shots that really announce that they are animation-- for example, the Fett-chick in the opening who watches the approaching Sith Lord, puts on her helmet and then the camera "flies" with her up to the next level. It would be more realistic without that camera move.
I'll stop if this is unwelcome. You know I love your work, Spence. But I feel this great opening would be more effective if it were considerably shorter.
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It's definitely being trimmed, but there isn't much I can do about making it not look CGI, because it is. I'm kind of alright with it, as it is the prologue. But yes, all of that is being taken into consideration.
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I think the pure cgi shots look like great fun. The trailer was outstanding. It managed to achieve a moving, "human", feel. The music worked perfectly, IMHO.
You've got an advantage with the pure cgi in that the mind doesn't expect perfect realism. With live characters in cgi environments, my mind at least, demands near perfection. 'Avatar' was very clever in that the fate of the main characters was linked to the flesh and blood. We cared about their fate. Also, the astounding advances in cgi presented in 3d created a new sort of realism.
Looking forward to more! Great work!
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I just kind of got into the TPM section. The photography of that movie is very flat, much more so than the other prequels. It's a little more diffcult to get good black and white shots. I'll have to play with it more.
I did manage to skip the first 45 minutes of the movie though, as I can have the narration explain that in about 30 seconds. Nice!
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The-Lion said:
Spence did you use music from The Legend of Zelda in the preview clip? I thought I recognised it!
If you want Zelda in your SW you'll need to check out my edit ;-)
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Awesome!
I'm struggling a little with the podrace. The cutting on it is looking good, but I'm having music issues. Anybody got ideas of something kind of classical? It doesn't have to be just strings, but I do like that string quartet sound, most of the music is that. Help would be appreciated!
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I'm also thinking of doing a new preview clip. I'm keeping a lot of the big moments and different things I'm trying as surprises, but I want to keep the interest level high while still keeping a lot of it close to the chest. Anything in particular anyone wants to see a test of? I've only edited through to the Podrace, but I'm doing tests of things throughout the whole movie.
What do you want to see?
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I would like to pose a question... do you think this project would benefit from a complete dubbing of Hayden Christianson? I have been mulling it over for a while, and I can't decide if the benefits out weight the potential complications.
The benefit is that I can give some of his line readings a better inflection, and in Ep. III especially this could really help with his character and the emotions involved. Another benefit is that, since I'm doing both the narration and some lines for Vader in the suit, it gives Anakin a clear, consistent voice.
The downside is that the narration won't stand out as much, and if there's narration during scenes where Anakin talks, it could be a little confusing. Most of the time, Anakin will not be talking when there's narration.
What do you guys think? It'll be a little extra work but it isn't particularly difficult. I'm not doing many other voice overs, just a few neimoidians. I have a friend that is doing Grievous and probably someone else will do what little of Jar Jar remains.
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Spence, this is an incredibly intriguing concept. I am very interested in this edit.
Without having checked out the 8 minute preview, I will say that if you can make a dubbing work, consistency would probably be good.
A few comments, though, in terms of the idea of being a throwback to the classics. I like the idea, but being a fan of classic films myself, it seems that some things, as is, might work against that feel.
The string quartet stuff is good music, but it tends to actually give more of a contemporary classical flavor feel to me. I would strongly recommend seeking out Golden Age film music, or late Romantic period concert music (because this was the style from which film music back then was most closely descended). I'd be glad to recommend some scores/pieces to consider if you'd like.
Also, I'm surprised that you find it difficult to get good black and white shots out of TPM--if anything, that should be the easiest to get better material that translates to that classic flavor. In the teaser trailer, particularly the AOTC shots of Anakin and Padme along with Anakin on the speeder reminded me of independent films far more than old school epics. Some of ROTS looked a bit better, but the shot of Palpatine definitely stood out.
Now, of course, this is your edit, and if the aesthetic you've got is what you want, that's all good, but if you do really want to go for the flavor of a classic epic, these things definitely come across the opposite. As is, the impression is more of a contemporary film in which the filmmaker chose to shoot in black-and-white.
Either way, it's a very interesting project, and I wish you good luck and productive editing!
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I like the idea of redubbing Anakin - as well as better inflection a huge potential benefit is giving him better dialogue. I'm surprised your concern is that it'd be confusing if Anakin is talking in the same scene as narration - without seeing it, I'd guess it would be more confusing if Anakin has two different voices.
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I think you guys are right. It would definitely be an improvement.
I do have one concern though. I recently rewatched Shroud of the Dark Side, where Anakin is completely redubbed. It works for the most part, but the whole time I was watching it I kept thinking "there's no way that voice is coming out of that guy." I don't want to have that feel in my edit, as it'll just immediately take people out of the story. I'm going to do some tests today.
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Just a few thoughts... Some will echo what I've said in fe.org...
But I love the prologue as it is, visually, and musically it works. The voice-over works but there is too much obvious noise there. I'm not sure what you would do about that... I would suggest using longer fades to mask it more, or clip it just before you speak. As long as your voice is there, I'm not sure you'll hear the noise. I'm pretty sure you would drown it out, and I think you can do this without re-dubbing.
But that's my only real hangup there.
The Anakin voice re-dub could be great if done subtly. But I'm afraid to really know for sure, you'll have to jump in and try it.
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Oh and to reply to musicman, the idea was to give it an old school epic feeling, but the actual content of the movie has taken more of a life of its own since then. One of the biggest inspirations for me has been Metropolis by Fritz Lang as far as look and music. the 1930's Dracula and Philip Glass' music for it have also been a big inspiration. So it feels almost like a dark epic similar to those films, but obviously it isn't silent. It's familiar in its classic stylings, but with a completely original feel.
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Wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
You watched Shroud of the Dark Side?
Well, off-topic, what did you think and how does it compare with your Episode II? If you posted a review elsewhere, you can just direct me if you like. I'm very interested in your thoughts.
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Oh, and to answer your questions:
1) I think redubbing Anakin is great, but it has its risks. I don't know if it helps any, but I can honestly say Hayden's voice never really bothered me. I found that he was poorly edited and made to say awful lines, but his voice always seemed fine to me.
2) I would like to see any stretch of scenes where you show the pace and approach you intend to use for dialogue scenes. I'd like to see something you chopped up to fit the pace you are establishing so that all 3 movies will fit here. Does that make sense?
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hmm i think the redubbing of hayden sounds risky too - and sounds like you are making a lot of work for yourself - but, you have to do what you wanna do - its definately a very different type of edit than ive seen so far - so i hope it really works out for you
All i was gonna say originally, is that the way all the people talk in the prequels sounds flat - the conversations never seem to flow naturally, which leaves me feeling a bit....uncomfortable is the only way i can describe it.
I saw bobgarcia's edit of the opera scene in reign of the darkside and was flabbergasted! the conversation now flows really naturally and almost seems like it was meant to be shown that way - I cant stand to watch the original version cos it just makes me go into spasm's. So i was much relieved watching the edited version and enjoy'd the scene.
but the time it must have taken to do all those small cuts and move things round and still have it spot on must be a nightmare. So wether you try something like that to concentrate on improving the flow of conversation or just re-dub...it all sounds very complicated!
may the force be with you dood!
You can never go home again, but i guess you can shop there.
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SpenceEdit said:
Thats possibly the coolest thing I've ever seen.
I didnt like the blocky font for the title at the end though.
What do you reckon about a thin lined cursive text and the light shining through that? I feel that holds more in the line with the feeling of the trailer.
Hope you understand my poor explanation lol. Maybe someone more talented than me could mock that up just for the craic?
Other than that...very excited to see what you do with the movie!
Edit: Ah crap, can't get the 8 minutes to work.
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lucas |
definition. |
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(verb.) To retroactively redefine a well-established and imagined background story (or actual, real-world history)in such a way that it invalidates the results of that history or story.
Also selectively remembering details in a way that presents the rememberer in a finacially advantageous light. Can also be used an an adjective. |
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You said you were having trouble with the podracer sequence. You could try and incorporate shots from the intro movie for the Episode I racer game.
vv Some of it looks pretty shoddy but theres some good stuff too, it might be useful.
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lucas |
definition. |
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(verb.) To retroactively redefine a well-established and imagined background story (or actual, real-world history)in such a way that it invalidates the results of that history or story.
Also selectively remembering details in a way that presents the rememberer in a finacially advantageous light. Can also be used an an adjective. |
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A couple cool tidbits, things that usually aren't cut that I'm able to do through the style of this edit:
No Queen Decoys
No Gungans other than Jar Jar
Zam Wessel is not a "changeling"
No Kamino subplot/ Jango is not the basis for the Clones.
No General Grievous
No Bail Organa other than Senate scenes.
Heavily reduced Kashyyk battle.
No birth of the twins/Jedi going into exile. That's not saying that it doesn't happen, but Anakin doesn't know that it happened, and this is all from his point of view.
New pics:
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I see what you're saying, Spence--I got the sense that that was the case. More power to ya, then! Let me know if you have any trouble finding music for it, though.
I like those shots--particularly the one of Vader in his chamber. The way it's lit, it reminds me of something like Dr. Strangelove or something.
The changes you have listed intrigue me. Sounding cool!
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I'm struggling with something right now that I'd like to get an opinion on.
Jar-Jar. Jar-Jar is a problem. If I could totally remove him that would be fantastic, but I can't. So I need to establish who he is for this edit.
The problem is, I don't really know who he is for this edit, as he has no purpose. Once I get beyond TPM, he's more or less completely removed, but while they are on Tattooine I can't get rid of him.
As it plays right now, the lead into TPM is a narrated piece that sums up what has been going on. The seperatists have invaded Naboo, Padme asks two Jedi to help her escape, and whammy, the ship flies away from Naboo. It works great and gets us into the important action quickly, but we have this weird frog guy wandering around with our Jedi. Because everything involving the Jedi getting to Theed has been removed, he's just kind of there when they reach Tattooine.
I've been toying with mentioning in the narration that he is a senator, or an aid to Padme, or an aid to the Jedi, but I don't really know. I can't think of a good way to make him work for this edit. Anybody have any ideas?
I've decided to split the edit into chapters, similar to what is done in recent Tarantino edits. They are as follows:
Part 1: Prophecy of the Force
Part 2: The Clone War
Part 3: Duel of the Fates
Obviously these chapters relate to the prequel that they contain. In addition there is also an overture, prologue, and intermission. There are two bookends of ANH era Vader. So basically the timeline jumps around a lot, and I feel having these chapter cards helps keep everything flowing right and reduces confusion. I mean in the first 15 minutes alone we go from The Sith was to 1000 years later with Vader in ANH era and then back to 40 years before that to the beginning of TPM. I don't want it to get too jumpy.
I'm going to post a rough clip of how things flow into TPM this afternoon, maybe that will help with my Jar-Jar conundrum.
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hmm.. maybe jar jar could just be a civilian that the jedi rescued from the droids or maybe just a representative of the gungans.... not a senator - i dont think that would come over as believable due to his antics
You can never go home again, but i guess you can shop there.