What Is Wrong with This Picture? (from the ROTS script)

Well, it’s not a picture exactly; it’s a portion of the ROTS script. There is something iffy about it, though, something very iffy. If you can spot what it is, you’ll win a frosty chocolate milkshake!*

**222 INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT

**On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.

YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is …

QUI -GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.

YODA: Eternal consciousness.

QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.

YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater than all, it is.

QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.

YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.

• The frosty chocolate milkshake is of the spiritual, metaphorical variety, not the literal; if you want a literal milkshake, buy or make one yourself.

Is the strange fact that Liam Neeson didn't have the time to figure out this secret and yet somehow he knows it anyway?

And I have to say DuracellEnergizer, before I opened this thread, I saw you avatar and read "What's wrong with this picture" and had a good laugh.

A great many things. I had just written out a long-ish response pointing out the plot holes and weaknesses of this dialogue, but my stupid computer just eated it, and honestly, I think it's obvious for everyone reading anyway.

It's a horrible piece of exposition schlock that makes no sense on many levels :D

 

Sluggo said:

Is the strange fact that Liam Neeson didn't have the time to figure out this secret and yet somehow he knows it anyway?

 

Alexrd

said:

He does say he discovered it when he became one with the Force.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! You're both right! So here's your frosty chocolate milkshakes!

Ah, Qui-Gon, you amazing bastard. To have learned how to merge with the Force and retain your personality after passing the point-of-no-return that is death is truly a sign that the midi-chlorians are strong in you. Kudos!

Sluggo said:

And I have to say DuracellEnergizer, before I opened this thread, I saw you avatar and read "What's wrong with this picture" and had a good laugh.

As funny as it is, it's not half as funny apart from the stupid Wookieepedia article I stole it from =D

I don't think I want to know.

So maybe/maybe not the flaw was realized and that's why this dialog was cut, so what would you have done differently or was it best to leave this one the floor?

Personally, I think it was best to leave it on the cutting room floor as it didn't have a proper set-up in earlier movies.  Had Quigon actually disappeared or had there been some actual discussion of it earlier in the prequels, it could have been done right.  

As it is now, there is a strange attempt to have Quigon yell "Noooooooooo!!!!" in AOTC, but it doesn't sound like him (for obvious reasons) so when he appears to Yoda in ROTS, it seems rushed.  I think the reason it was cut was movie was too long anyway, but had George set it up more earlier, he might have had to keep it in.

Sluggo said:

Personally, I think it was best to leave it on the cutting room floor as it didn't have a proper set-up in earlier movies.  Had Quigon actually disappeared or had there been some actual discussion of it earlier in the prequels, it could have been done right.  

As it is now, there is a strange attempt to have Quigon yell "Noooooooooo!!!!" in AOTC, but it doesn't sound like him (for obvious reasons) so when he appears to Yoda in ROTS, it seems rushed.  I think the reason it was cut was movie was too long anyway, but had George set it up more earlier, he might have had to keep it in.

Wait, wait... the part where he screams "Anakin", that's... is that stock recording from that part where he warns him about Darth Maul?? Never thought about it.... I'd thought they'd paid Neeson to speak one line for the new movie...

Another thing is wrong with this picture - force ghosts had never been established as living up to that "unimaginable power" Ben was boasting about before his death in the OT.

The maximum he accomplished was guiding Luke through the dogfight, which he could've done just as well alive, meditatin' or something, other than that his whole purpose was spouting off expository dialogue and joining in at celebrations.

No need to shine a giant spotlight at that (somewhat forgiveable) flaw from the OT, by shoehorning in a truly pointless scene with the sole purpose of fanservice and continuinty nod.

It's like "yay, Qui-Gon Jinn started this whole ghost thing! He teaches Yoda and Obi-Wan how to do that so in the next movies they can transform into ghosts and continue supplying our main hero with exposition! wait, why am I watching this?"


More powerful than any Sith? My ass is more powerful than any Sith. It all comes down to the width of the lightsaber, baby...

Lots of other things that feel wrong about this dialog:

Why does Qui-Gon say "no thought of self" right after talking about the possibility of "avoiding oblivion" while retaining consciousness, and DEMONSTRATING THAT HIMSELF WHILE HE'S SPEAKING?

Then there's that Shaman of Dshinghis reference... WHY is it in the script??!

Through compassion, not greed? Oh, so the Jedi and force ghost thing is established as good, not evil, thanks. You see, it's achieved with "compassion". If you're not going to elaborate on that, just fucking strike it out or it remains as a horrible artificially shoved-in cliché so obviously there to serve as checkbox.

Then, how come Yoda never ever mentioned Qui-Gon in EpV and VI, given that he had been his "apprentice" in becoming a ghost? I mean, everyone else keeps talking about Qui-Gon in those movies, why not Yoda??!

That whole scene reads like it was written by a 7 year old. Could it have been delivered well with some good acting (and actor's modification)? Maybe. But it was right about staying the fuck out of the movie.

Yeah, I think they cut it because it's a guy saying "I learned how to keep my consciousness after I lost my consciousness."

Baronlando said:

Yeah, I think they cut it because it's a guy saying "I learned how to keep my consciousness after I lost my consciousness."

Actually he doesn't say that. He sez: "I learned how to keep my consciousness while having no consciousness at the same time."

twooffour said:

Sluggo said:

Personally, I think it was best to leave it on the cutting room floor as it didn't have a proper set-up in earlier movies.  Had Quigon actually disappeared or had there been some actual discussion of it earlier in the prequels, it could have been done right.  

As it is now, there is a strange attempt to have Quigon yell "Noooooooooo!!!!" in AOTC, but it doesn't sound like him (for obvious reasons) so when he appears to Yoda in ROTS, it seems rushed.  I think the reason it was cut was movie was too long anyway, but had George set it up more earlier, he might have had to keep it in.

Wait, wait... the part where he screams "Anakin", that's... is that stock recording from that part where he warns him about Darth Maul?? Never thought about it.... I'd thought they'd paid Neeson to speak one line for the new movie...

The Anakin lines were looped from TPM and the Noooooo!!!!!* was performed by Ben Burtt.

*Why does NOOOOOO!!!! have to be the reoccurring theme of the PT?  Lame.

Sluggo said:

*Why does NOOOOOO!!!! have to be the reoccurring theme of the PT?  Lame.

Permission for use in sig?

Sluggo said:

*Why does NOOOOOO!!!! have to be the reoccurring theme of the PT?

It gives me PURPOSE.  Makes me STRONGER.  And improves my EDIT.

DuracellEnergizer said:

YODA: Your apprentice I gratefully become.

This is dumb.

Sluggo said:

twooffour said:

Sluggo said:

Personally, I think it was best to leave it on the cutting room floor as it didn't have a proper set-up in earlier movies.  Had Quigon actually disappeared or had there been some actual discussion of it earlier in the prequels, it could have been done right.  

As it is now, there is a strange attempt to have Quigon yell "Noooooooooo!!!!" in AOTC, but it doesn't sound like him (for obvious reasons) so when he appears to Yoda in ROTS, it seems rushed.  I think the reason it was cut was movie was too long anyway, but had George set it up more earlier, he might have had to keep it in.

Wait, wait... the part where he screams "Anakin", that's... is that stock recording from that part where he warns him about Darth Maul?? Never thought about it.... I'd thought they'd paid Neeson to speak one line for the new movie...

The Anakin lines were looped from TPM and the Noooooo!!!!!* was performed by Ben Burtt.

 

 

*Why does NOOOOOO!!!! have to be the reoccurring theme of the PT?  Lame.

So after all tgese tortutred years, I finally do understand why the NO sounded so differently... guess I just thought that's what he screams like?

I mean WOW... how FUCKING cheap.

I mean, just to be fair, could it be that Jinn screams differently on the other side than he did when he was alive (his voval chords must've been worn out, haha)? I guess it's possible... anything's possible with ghosts! But y'know what I think? Well...

Alexrd said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Ah, Qui-Gon, you amazing bastard. To have learned how to merge with the Force and retain your personality after passing the point-of-no-return that is death is truly a sign that the midi-chlorians are strong in you. Kudos!

While I appreciate the virtual milkshake, I really don't understand what's wrong. The fact that he can teach it to others is important. But then again, there is no point in arguing or searching nits about a script part that was cut and never used for the movie.

Congratulations! You didn't read the thread.