Doctors not seeing kids withot vaccinations — Page 3

The problem isn't the vaccines, per se, it's the sheer number of them given at once nowadays, combined with using thimerosal (ethylmercury) as a preservative. Despite what some of you may say (very vehemently, I mighty add!), there is a definite link between thimerosal and mitochondrial disorders (Journal of Toxicology and Chemistry, last summer) There is also a known link between mitochondrial disorders and autism (Journal of The American Medical Association, last fall). I hope I don't need to draw a diagram here.  I'll post pdfs, if you can't find these studies through Google. My wife has a Masters Degree in abnormal child psychology, and is the Clinical Supervisor in her school district for kids with autism. She has seen normally developing children suddenly "have autism" after 18 month vaccines. She doesn't want my 15 month old baby to have 9 different (yes, 9) poison laden vaccines injected into her at once during her 18 month checkup.  Who the fuck am I to argue with her?  The issue isn't "should children be vaccinated?" it's "do we really need a vaccine for the friggin' chicken pox"? or "do we really need 9 vaccines containing a known neuro-toxin at one time?"  Bill Gates is a huge proponent of forced vaccinations.  He's also a proponent of reducing the world's population by 10-15%.  Draw your own conclusions.  Also consider that 2 years ago Baxter (one of the biggest vaccine manufacturers in the world) sent large quantities of flu vaccine that were "accidently" contaminated with live Avian Flu samples. Despite the fact that there are numerous safety protocols that ensure that such a thing isn't even in the realm of possibility, it occured.  Didn't really make the news much (I wonder why?)  It was only caught when the receiving Country (Czech Republic) decided to test it first on lab animals.  They were kinda surprised when they all started dying. 

Warbler said:

FunkyDays said:

 He's also a huge proponent of reducing the world's population by 10-15%. 

first time I heard that.

"The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's heading up to about nine billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent"

Warbler said:

*shrugs shoulders*

perhaps he meant decreasing the world population by preventing reproduction rather than by killing people?

Very possibly.  It's also possibly not what he meant to say.  I would like to think that you're right, and that he meant preventing reproduction (although I question what makes him the moral authority on that).  I still fail to see any logical reason to mention "vaccines" and "reducing population" in the same sentence. I don't see the parallel, or more accurately, I don't "want" to see a parallel. I'm sure that Baxter thing was an accident. And the Bayer episode where they pulled drugs for hemophiliacs off the U.S. market because it was contaminated with the HIV virus, and then shipped them off European and Latin American markets instead is probably just nonsense too.  ;-)  Bottom line for me is that *many* vaccines are safe and have been proven safe. Kids should be vaccinated against deadly diseases using known safe vaccines but not in large quantities at once (I never had 9 vaccines at once when I was a child and most people over the age of, say, 20 probably haven't either). Anyone who completely dismisses "out-of-hand" ANY links to a "known" neurotoxin (thimerosal) and neurological disorders is "optimistic" at best, and misinformed at worst. And, finally, anyone who believe vaccine makers have good safety records, good safety protocols, and have our interests in mind over financial interests...well, lets just say I've got a bridge they may like to consider purchasing.

CP3S said:

 

TV's Frink said:

CP3S said:

Twister, your punctuation literally makes my head hurt. I swear you just randomly drop commas into your sentences. Don't take this the wrong way, I not trying to bash you. In fact, I appreciate that you even use punctuation at all; seems on the internet a lot of people don't even try. You're making some decent points, however, I think your posts would be much easier to follow, and your points would be much better made, if all your commas and periods were in their proper places. 

Shhhhhh!  It's hard enough to get female perspectives on this webzone, don't go driving them away! :p

Is Twister really a girl? I had no idea. Anyway, regardless of gender, I meant absolutely no disrespect. Someone near the top of the first page someone mentioned having a hard time following her posts, and I agree with them. However, I feel that she is making some really good posts, so it is a shame. Hopefully it won't be seen as grounds for leaving.

Nevermind I decided to move it to random thoughts myself:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Random-Thoughts/post/481800/#TopicPost481800

ChainsawAsh said:

This is all pretty much 100% bullshit. 

Which point(s) "exactly" do you feel are bullshit?

a) Thimerosal is a poison?

b) Vaccine makers can, and do use thimerosal as a preservative?

c) there is a link between thimerosal/mercury poisoning and mitochondrial disorders?

d) there is a link between mitochondrial disorders and autism?

EDIT: The point about my wife isn't that she's a medical doctor (or even plays one on tv) The point is, she sees more autistic children before noon on a Monday than most of us will in our lives.  She works closely with doctors, other psychologists and parents, and she hears all their stories. I assure you that not every doctor is convinced that there is NO link.  Most doctors do not have time to research every item that comes across their desk. They assume the research has been done and that the data sheets are correct.  Hell, they used to prescribe thalidomide for morning sickness.  They used to recommend smoking while pregnant as it would help to have a smaller baby. They're human, and knowledge is constantly changing. What is regarded as safe today may not be found to be so tomorrow.

CP3S said:

Definitely agree with Ash's point about your wife having a Masters in Psychology, not exactly the credentials I'd be looking to for an informed view on the subject.

Being in a similar field myself, the recognition of signs of autism at or around the 18th month mark is hardly conclusive evidence to say it is caused by 18 month vaccines. It is not uncommon for symptoms of autism and other developmental disorders to be over looked in children until they have reached later stages of infancy.

However, I can see how such an overload of simultaneous vaccines could be potentially harmful.

I am not going to say everything Hairy Hen said is complete nonsense without giving all his points a further look, but it does sound suspiciously alarmist mixed with vague facts.

HH, if you don't mind posting the pdfs of the journal articles you mentioned, preferably with page numbers for the information in question, that would be great and would save me a lot of time trying to track them down on my own.

I'm not HairyHen :) but when I get home from work I will post those studies. I'm not saying "vaccines" cause autism. I'm saying dismissing links completely out of hand is foolish. Not even the entire medical/scientific community has reached that consensus. Some have, some have not. And when there are doctors and scientists and studies in peer reviewed medical journals, I understand parents hesitation to give a child every vaccine known to man. Especially in light of past medical "mix ups" (See previous post to ChainsawAsh)

TV's Frink said:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/Index.html

That very well maybe true, and I hope it is! But, how many doctors and "experts" claimed for nearly 50 years that "there is no proof that smoking causes cancer" (the answer is LOTS.) Again, just because there is no proof now, doesn't mean there could not be in the future.  No one should dismiss it out of hand.  There are just too many cases like this...

http://www.bmj.com/content/334/7585/120.full

And who is watching the watchmen?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/25/cbsnews_investigates/main4296175.shtml

CP3S said:

Thanks, Fink. Sorry about that everyone. My apologies to HairyHen and to Funkydays. Not sure how I made that mistake.

I can't speak for HairyHen, but no apology is needed here :-) 

I've got to say i fully support the doctor here. All my kids were vaccinated. i think it is stupid for a parent not to vaccinate their children. It's become a "trend" here in the Uk not to vaccinate just because of the unfounded scaremongering about the links to autism. More and more kids are being diagnosed with autism, same as dislexia, all to easy. Doctors don't seem to find out anything about the child background and upbringing before making a diagnosis. My ex-sister-in-law has had all 3 of her children diagnosed with autism and dislexia but this is down to their upbringing and not anything medical. From the time they were able to walk they were chucked outside to "play" just so she could watch the TV in peace. Not once did she ever sit down and read to them or teach them how to read and write. they were feral kids and this showed in their behaviour. None of them could read or write anything by the time they went to school. As they got older when they came home they were never made to do their homework. It was only when she was being investigated by social services and was told by the benefits office that her children were old enough now that she had to go look for a job  that she decided that there was something wrong with them and went to the doctors. Now she had been on the internet and researched about tell tale signed of various conditions so she could give a detailed description to the doctor and it worked.  She now gets a disgusting amount of money off the social for their so called "disabilities" because she was able to screw the system.

Parents should take responsibility for their children. Not getting their children vaccinated not only could harm their own child, but someone else's that may not be old enough to have completed the vaccination stages too.

One thing that makes me sick with some parents now is that they will have "sickness parties". If one child gets chicken pox (yes i know this isn't part of the vaccinations unless its changed since my children were young), measles, mumps etc these parents  will gather all their children together and have these so called parties in the hope that all their children will also get whichever illness the one child has so they can get it earlier in life, instead of getting any of the vaccinations. Now this has become acceptable without any regard for the safety of their children or anyone elses.

Doctors and hospitals here are refusing to treat people that smoke or are overweight, even though that doesn't affect anyone else apart from themselves, so why can't they refuse to treat children whose parents have refused to let their children have these vital vaccinations?