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TV's Frink said:
I'm sorry if I missed this, but if the Blu project ends up viable would you also release it as an AVCHD for those without Blu burners? I would be very interested in that.
+1
Star Wars OT & 1997 Special Edition - Various Projects Info (Released) — Page 75
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TV's Frink said:
I'm sorry if I missed this, but if the Blu project ends up viable would you also release it as an AVCHD for those without Blu burners? I would be very interested in that.
Probably not, there will be to much on it to fit a DVD9, all that audio, fancy menu, high bitrate encode, the only way there could be an AVCHD is by downloading it and stripping what you don't want and encoding it yourself, I can burn Blu's and I want everything I have on 1 BD for each movie, then I can quit this shit LOL, NO MORE STAR WARS projects! then I can enjoy the Saga BD Set this Fall.
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I'm new to this thread, but I wanted to say that I just downloaded the 720p sample clip and streamed it to my 60" Pioneer Kuro via the PS3. I honestly can't believe that it was possible to make the GOUT look and sound this good. It's a shame LFL doesn't put as much effort into preserving the original versions, but that's a topic that has already been beat to death in these parts. Anyway, I would gladly commit now to donating blank BD discs for this project if it becomes a reality and I certainly hope it does.
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BMadden said:
and I certainly hope it does.
Me to, I am still trying different things out as I type this, at least I won't have to do any audio work except encode a DTS-HD MA 5.1 of hairy_hens fantastic 5.1 mixes(THANKS to Satanika for upping the 6 lossless wav files) and Mr. msycamore already said he would lend a hand in getting his Theatrical subs to work for these, and the menu, all I can say is WOW! yes I have already seen samples.
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Between being on vacation last week and fighting a nasty cold this week I haven't had time to check in much, but I am definitely interested in the Blu release if/when it happens. The samples look amazing!
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20th Century Mark said:
Are these DVDs available yet?
I'd just like to second this question.
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timdiggerm said:
20th Century Mark said:
Are these DVDs available yet?
I'd just like to second this question.
Versions 1 and 2 are available, but version 3 is (I believe) being put on hold while dark_jedi figures out if he can instead release this version on blu-ray.
“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers
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By the way dark_jedi, I watched the clip again tonight in its entirety, and I'm thinking I should recant my last comment about the lack of grain. I'll ultimately trust in yours (and everyone else's) input/opinion on this subject, but quite frankly the image quality is freaking amazing.
I'm wondering: are we simply used to the GOUT looking grainy? Or is there, in fact, too much grain removal here? I'm really undecided.
(I can't believe we're having a discussion about whether the GOUT is too clean :)
“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers
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V3 will be released, it is not on hold in favor of the Blu possible release, I am still waiting on feedback from all that have gotten it so far, but if no more comes, I will just try to fix what I know about and upload.
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dark_jedi said:
I have already stated it is probably to much cleanup(this was my first time with this filter) but the grain\noise HAS to be lessened quit a bit on this version, when blowing it up it really screws up some scenes, like Tantive IV hallways, space shots, and especially the sky on the outside on Tatooine shots
Noise yes, grain no (my opinion). These shots you mentioned are "supposed" to be grainy by their nature, that's how they were in the original film, too. You can see it here (from 70 mm film):
Tantive and Tatooine scenes are from grainy to VERY grainy but scenes shot in studio are not. Of course opinions may vary but I'd suggest leaving the grain there as it was in the original film, IF these are trying to match the original. :)
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
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That stormtroopers' shot actually looks all the more beautiful in its grainy nature.
Is there a 70mm film print preservation available for download out there somewhere? I for one would be very interested.
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LexX said:
Noise yes, grain no (my opinion). These shots you mentioned are "supposed" to be grainy by their nature, that's how they were in the original film, too.
Huh a lot of scenes look far grainier than I expected, especially the desert. I never knew that Star Wars was supposed to look that grainy. They must have really DVNR-ed it for the 2004 release. As for making the Blu-Ray, this grainy... I'm indifferent. I thought the samples were very nice minus some issues so that may be the road Dark Jedi wants to take.
Out of curiosity, where did you get those 70mm shots from? Are they from the Senator Theater showing or an altogether different one?
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The Aluminum Falcon said:
As for making the Blu-Ray, this grainy... I'm indifferent.
The sample that dark_jedi has uploaded looks stunning, and I eagerly await a release of whatever he decides is the right thing to do! At the end of the day whatever makes him happy is correct, and we are all the richer for him releasing it for everyone. That said, in my opinion there's nothing wrong with film grain. LexX is right when he says film grain is supposed to be there. You're obviously an Evil Dead fan, Aluminum Falcon ;-) Check out the new Blu of ED. TONS of grain, as it was remastered from the original 16mm neg and there seems to be little to no DVNR applied. It may be the grainiest transfer of a film I've ever seen, and it looks outstanding. The grain really enhances the "gritty realism" atmosphere of the film in my opinion, and to me, that's one of the things that REALLY seperates the OT from the prequels. The OT looks gritty and real, and I think that film grain adds to that realism.
EDIT: On second thought, my comments are probably moot anyways. LFL scrubbed the living daylights out of any true "film grain" a long time ago :-( It's probably just the upsampling making flaws in the GOUT master that much more exagerated.
“Yes, it speaks of the trinity; casting light at the sun with its wandering eye”
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I agree with you in many respects, Funky Days. I have the Evil Dead Blu-Ray and enjoy it immensely. It makes all other transfers look awful despite its graininess. The film grain gives it character, and it just enhances the ED experience. I now watch it more than ever. Some people talked about it having DVNR, but my eyes couldn't detect it. It's so vastly superior to the ED II transfer which is completely wax-works. Oh and gits and shiggles LOL.
As for this Blu-Ray project, I remain neutral. The grain gives it mood and character. The grainy desert... Anyway, I don't mind grain all that much. If you choose to wipe out the grain, I'll be fine with that too. If the samples are any indication, I have no problem with the amount of grain-reducer you use.
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Grain = detail
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This is a sample I whipped up to show you the problems I am having, look at where the sky meets the ground, watch when Luke runs over to Beru, look over Owens shoulder, and when Owen calls Luke over with him and 3PO, this is a very small clip with no audio.
I still have other setting to try but this is my problem.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/sg0l1o
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dark_jedi said:
TV's Frink said:
I'm sorry if I missed this, but if the Blu project ends up viable would you also release it as an AVCHD for those without Blu burners? I would be very interested in that.
Probably not, there will be to much on it to fit a DVD9, all that audio, fancy menu, high bitrate encode, the only way there could be an AVCHD is by downloading it and stripping what you don't want and encoding it yourself, I can burn Blu's and I want everything I have on 1 BD for each movie, then I can quit this shit LOL, NO MORE STAR WARS projects! then I can enjoy the Saga BD Set this Fall.
DJ, I hope you will reconsider this. I know an AVCHD with just Hairy Hen's 5.1 mixes would be great, kind of like the Maximum Bitrate Editions of the V3.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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The Aluminum Falcon said:
LexX said:
Noise yes, grain no (my opinion). These shots you mentioned are "supposed" to be grainy by their nature, that's how they were in the original film, too.
Huh a lot of scenes look far grainier than I expected, especially the desert. I never knew that Star Wars was supposed to look that grainy. They must have really DVNR-ed it for the 2004 release.
If you notice, the shots posted that had a lot of grain were all shots that contained composited effects. this created heavier grain than in other shots because it is, in effect, layers upon layers of film. The desert scenes that contain heavy grain have all had the skies added. When they did the SE they digitally recomposited these shots which eliminated the heavy grain
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Thanks Ady for explaining all that to us, now I understand why most of the sample looks great right up until that point, damn I hope I don't have to break this up into scenes to do.
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Since this is a GOUT based project, I'd chalk the grainy skies up to a GOUT defect, and live with it along with the blinking stormtroopers.
Best to use just one setting for grain removal, and do not base the setting on the extreme sky scenes. Live with grainy skies; optimize the grain removal for the rest of the film, avoiding plastic actors.
my humble opinion.
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It is hard to explain, it is not like it is to grainy, you need to look at the samples on a big screen HDTV, it's like it all breaks apart, and the smoke looks like shit, like I said it is hard to explain, it just looks like pure shit, to me anyways.
The very strange thing though, I do not see any of this on the lossless avi file, it is only after encoding and making a sample Blu file and I watch on my HDTV, on the PC it looks fine, totally stumped.
But as you said, blinking Stormtroopers I can easily deal with, because at least they still look good, the sky, smoke, outlines of buildings, SHIT.
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dark_jedi said:
It is hard to explain, it is not like it is to grainy, you need to look at the samples on a big screen HDTV, it's like it all breaks apart, and the smoke looks like shit, like I said it is hard to explain, it just looks like pure shit, to me anyways.
The very strange thing though, I do not see any of this on the lossless avi file, it is only after encoding and making a sample Blu file and I watch on my HDTV, on the PC it looks fine, totally stumped.
But as you said, blinking Stormtroopers I can easily deal with, because at least they still look good, the sky, smoke, outlines of buildings, SHIT.
You mean it looks blocky or something? Sorry D_J but I just dont see what you're seeing on my big samsung.
maybe its just different sets and different players that's part of the reason it looks different to each of us.
It sounds like your TV has an extremely detailed picture to it. My Samsung is a DLP....are you watching on a plasma or LCD? maybe the pixel detail is much more pronounced on your set so you're seeing things I just cant see?
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Darth, What's His Name? said:
dark_jedi said:
It is hard to explain, it is not like it is to grainy, you need to look at the samples on a big screen HDTV, it's like it all breaks apart, and the smoke looks like shit, like I said it is hard to explain, it just looks like pure shit, to me anyways.
The very strange thing though, I do not see any of this on the lossless avi file, it is only after encoding and making a sample Blu file and I watch on my HDTV, on the PC it looks fine, totally stumped.
But as you said, blinking Stormtroopers I can easily deal with, because at least they still look good, the sky, smoke, outlines of buildings, SHIT.
You mean it looks blocky or something? Sorry D_J but I just dont see what you're seeing on my big samsung.
maybe its just different sets and different players that's part of the reason it looks different to each of us.
It sounds like your TV has an extremely detailed picture to it. My Samsung is a DLP....are you watching on a plasma or LCD? maybe the pixel detail is much more pronounced on your set so you're seeing things I just cant see?
You know that is exactly one thing I was thinking of, different players, HDTV's and such, but if that is the case it will still be hard to do because I want it to look good on my setup LOL, if it doesn't then I think something is wrong.
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dark_jedi said:
This is a sample I whipped up to show you the problems I am having, look at where the sky meets the ground, watch when Luke runs over to Beru, look over Owens shoulder, and when Owen calls Luke over with him and 3PO, this is a very small clip with no audio.
I still have other setting to try but this is my problem.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/sg0l1o
Whoa! I see it plain as day even on my computer monitor. In the first shot that shows the entire sky, blocks are dancing around like a "spectrum analyzer". When Luke is running to Beru it kind of looks like he's in a sandstorm, and when he's looking down speaking to her it looks like plagues of locusts are flying around, but seem to fly up and out of the shot. Very weird. I wish I knew what to tell you :-( Adywan's explanation of why the grain is so heavy in these shots makes perfect sense, but what I'm seeing is definitely not normal film grain, or even "heavy" film grain. I would think that it is possible that the heavy handed noise reduction originally used in the GOUT mastering made the "heavy" grain look blocky and upsampling to a higher resolution only makes it more apparent. But it also looks like something going crazy during the encoding.
“Yes, it speaks of the trinity; casting light at the sun with its wandering eye”
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FunkyDays said:
dark_jedi said:
This is a sample I whipped up to show you the problems I am having, look at where the sky meets the ground, watch when Luke runs over to Beru, look over Owens shoulder, and when Owen calls Luke over with him and 3PO, this is a very small clip with no audio.
I still have other setting to try but this is my problem.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/sg0l1o
Whoa! I see it plain as day even on my computer monitor. In the first shot that shows the entire sky, blocks are dancing around like a "spectrum analyzer". When Luke is running to Beru it kind of looks like he's in a sandstorm, and when he's looking down speaking to her it looks like plagues of locusts are flying around, but seem to fly up and out of the shot. Very weird. I wish I knew what to tell you :-( Adywan's explanation of why the grain is so heavy in these shots makes perfect sense, but what I'm seeing is definitely not normal film grain, or even "heavy" film grain. I would think that it is possible that the heavy handed noise reduction originally used in the GOUT mastering made the "heavy" grain look blocky and upsampling to a higher resolution only makes it more apparent. But it also looks like something going crazy during the encoding.
I don't see that at all. Either on my 24" wide screen monitor or my 58" tv.