hairy_hen said:
I've never really understood all the cracks about the dialogue in the OT. Not the greatest sometimes, sure, but much better than the PT.
In my opinion, the difference is only in the character's charisma. I like Star Wars, but it's certainly not because of the dialogue.
Alexrd said:
hairy_hen said:
I've never really understood all the cracks about the dialogue in the OT. Not the greatest sometimes, sure, but much better than the PT.
In my opinion, the difference is only in the character's charisma. I like Star Wars, but it's certainly not because of the dialogue.
Well then don't pay attention...
hairy_hen said:
Grievous was a stupid, worthless piece of shist in all ways.
His 'voice-acting', if you can call it that, was done by Matthew Wood.
The same Matthew Wood who is responsible for the absolute garbage that is the 2004 dvd sound mix for ANH.
Need I say more?
People have been known for being good writers and shit directors, or vice versa. What makes you think that one's abilities as a sound mixer (I haven't analyzed the sound mixing in any movies and have no idea what you're talking about with ANH) has ANY bearing on one's abilities as a voice actor?
Just in case this was somehow, somewhat a response to what I said, you very obviously missed the whole point. If not, then you didn't ;)
haljordan28 said:
When I went to see episode 3 opening night people in the audience were laughing at grivious. I think half the audience just was there to see how bad of a film it would be compared to the other two turds.
I'm welling to bet that a good chunk of them laughed because they found him genuinely funny ;)
The only "style" i found in the OT is Han Solo and Lando Calrissian busting out there dumb jokes. They always made me laugh.
And don't diss Darth Maul. You tell me one amazing force flip or a Jedi he offed, not as Anaking Skywalker, and prove it makes him better.
I thought Grievous was pretty fun for what he was, and he had a lot of character for someone with so little screentime, the problem was that there wasn't much room to develop him because he only was in 1/3 of a single film. Now, that's okay, but the damn trilogy is so crowded that every single villain is like that. On his own, Grievous is a cool character IMO, I think it's more the context that makes people dislike him. There were too many useless, undeveloped, CG characters with spinny acrobatics and funny voices and no room for a more developed, realistic, adult characterization. Dooku had so much potential but he ended up on a development arc that went right into a brick wall, even if his death scene was really cool.
It doesn't have anything to do with it--directly. But it sure as heck doesn't surprise me that bad taste in one area would also carry over to another.
The 2004 mix being a pile of crap is a pretty commonly held opinion on this forum. I have, in fact, analysed it in detail, and it's worse even than most people realise. The sound quality is often very bad, and aesthetically it stomps all over the original sound design and replaces it with a misguided mess that bears only superficial resemblance to what the movie is supposed to sound like.
TV's Frink said:
...need you stoop so low as to call him shist?
*note to self*
Don't have half-chewed Cheetos in your mouth when reading any Frink post. He'll get you when you least expect it.
;-)
Meh... in a universe that has Jar-Jar, Boss Nass, the two headed pod race announcer and, if you count the Clone Wars, a german evil mad scientist, Grievous is almost cool.
Like pretty much everything else in the prequels, he doesn't make any sense. There's no way anyone could beat him in a fight when he's spinning four lightsabers super fast like some blender. Also he looks more advanced than Vader and much more agile.
And like a lot of other things in the prequels, he's only there so we can have yet another lightsaber fight, cause you know, having three fights in a movie is not enough, you need four or it gets boring.
zombie84 said:
I thought Grievous was pretty fun for what he was, and he had a lot of character for someone with so little screentime, the problem was that there wasn't much room to develop him because he only was in 1/3 of a single film. Now, that's okay, but the damn trilogy is so crowded that every single villain is like that. On his own, Grievous is a cool character IMO, I think it's more the context that makes people dislike him. There were too many useless, undeveloped, CG characters with spinny acrobatics and funny voices and no room for a more developed, realistic, adult characterization. Dooku had so much potential but he ended up on a development arc that went right into a brick wall, even if his death scene was really cool.
Agreed.
Another really cool, well, almost "cameo" alien character in that film is Bruce Spence.
Now THAT guy was cool! A sympathetic, benevolent character that looks like a monster villain! But hey, nevermind giving him and his race a bit more screentime so we get a LITTLE bit more involved in the Separatists' evil planet conquering schtick (and, you know, since it's BRUCE SPENCE) - 1 minute of clichéd exposition dialog (how many times have we heard "there is no evil here, unless you brought it with you" before??) should be about enough.
hairy_hen said:
It doesn't have anything to do with it--directly. But it sure as heck doesn't surprise me that bad taste in one area would also carry over to another.
The 2004 mix being a pile of crap is a pretty commonly held opinion on this forum. I have, in fact, analysed it in detail, and it's worse even than most people realise. The sound quality is often very bad, and aesthetically it stomps all over the original sound design and replaces it with a misguided mess that bears only superficial resemblance to what the movie is supposed to sound like.
Okay, I kinda never noticed anything wrong with the way the DVD sounded, but maybe I didn't pay enough attention...
as far as I'm concerned, the "bad taste" certainly doesn't "carry over" in this case, as Grievous is a piece of wonderful cheesecamp.
I enjoy him much more than Romero's Joker, if that tells you anything ;)
Anchorhead said:
Maul & Grievous - that's just lazy.
If it's any consolation, their "pre-evil" names were Khameir Sarin and Qymaen jai Sheelal, respectively.
I know it isn't for me =D
WhatsMyName said:
The only "style" i found in the OT is Han Solo and Lando Calrissian busting out there dumb jokes. They always made me laugh.
And don't diss Darth Maul. You tell me one amazing force flip or a Jedi he offed, not as Anaking Skywalker, and prove it makes him better.
Darth Maul was indeed a very cool character. He didn't talk much, his costume was cool and kick ass, he looked evil as hell, and he fought well.
Episode 1 in my opinion was the only one of the PT films that felt "SOME WHAT" like the OT films. qui-gon and maul were the only two good things to come out of all 3 of the PT films. Lucas in some brilliant move decided to kill them off though. Dooku and grivious were NOT needed. Maul and palpatine could have and would have filled the space for villians in the 3 films.
I still am amazed at how poorly these three films were written. It is almost unbelivable. How someone could put so little thought and so little care into the most awaited and looked forward too films of all time. It really makes you scratch your head.
At least TPM used real locations.
AOTC did more than you think. They did film some of the Tatooine scenes in Tunisia as well as the Naboo scenes - the first part after they've landed, under the arches, is in Sevilla (Spain).
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
haljordan28 said:
Darth Maul was indeed a very cool character. He didn't talk much, his costume was cool and kick ass, he looked evil as hell, and he fought well.
His costume was really kind of "meh" to me. Rather drab and generic.
It'd be a different story altogether, though, if the costume had looked like this ...
actually durcell that is pretty bad ass too. I could take that one as well. Darth Maul was suich a good character I have a hard time believing lucas came up with him.
He didn't, the art department did.
Maul was a true, in my opinion, representation of what a sith should be. Merciless, powerful and amazing force powers. I know the OT is the OT and Luke wasn't a full fledged Jedi Knight, but no other Light Saber battle can beat Dual of the Fates in TPM
WhatsMyName said:
Maul was a true, in my opinion, representation of what a sith should be. Merciless, powerful and amazing force powers. I know the OT is the OT and Luke wasn't a full fledged Jedi Knight, but no other Light Saber battle can beat Dual of the Fates in TPM
duel pf the fates was exciting and flashy but it lacked the pure emotion intensity of the empire strikes back duel. The episode 5 duel was realistic and it was breath taking. when luke is walking down the hall nad vader jumps out of no where just taking it to luke it made you grasp the seat at the theater. It was as if the viewer could read vaders mind and he knew this kid was not to be taken lightly anymore and he has to be disabled or taken out or vader himself might be taken out by this yound jedi apprentice.
empire strikes back is just a perfect film in my opinion. the duel of the fates was good but it was just more of the prequel circus performance stuff. too many cheroographed spins and leaps. especially at the end after qui-gon is struck down and obi-wan rushes maul. It was just too staged and flashy for it's own good. to me the PT duels were just power ranger type scenes. Where with the OT the duels looked just like sword fighting scenes in gladiator or braveheart or troy or lord of the rings.
haljordan28 said:
actually durcell that is pretty bad ass too. I could take that one as well. Darth Maul was suich a good character I have a hard time believing lucas came up with him.
A good... cartoon. Not in any way a good "character".
For a "character", we get to know waay to little of his actual character. But what we actually get is no idea what he's doing on Tattoine (is he supposed to track the ship? or the Queen/Jedi? or just scare them), and a lot of stupid stuff that doesn't make sense - why does he send out a bunch of search droids into the city, in hope they find the passengers whose identity he doesn't know, so they lead him to the ship he's just tracked to this site of the planet, instead of surveilling the SHIP which he'd just tracked, or at the very least, sending out the droids to find the GIANT SHIP IN THE DESERT?
Even if he just wanted to scare them for some reason, so they can get to Coruscant - the droid thing doesn't make sense.
A good CHARACTER doesn't make stupid, nonsensical stuff in an idiot plot. Darth Maul is a dumb, chaotic person, and has no character - all he has is his charismatic appearence. He's a CARTOON. And a damn good one for what he is.
I was going to give him some slack and laud his tactical genius in swordfighting but no - his biggest feat was luring away Qui-Gon into a trap, and that only worked because Qui-Gon acted so self-confident and dumb. That, and Maul was obviously surprised by the force fields, so did he REALLY know where he's going? But hey, could've been acting.
WhatsMyName said:
Maul was a true, in my opinion, representation of what a sith should be. Merciless, powerful and amazing force powers.
How was he merciless and powerful? All he did was look cool and did some gymnastics?
TML said:
How was he merciless and powerful? All he did was look cool and did some gymnastics?
It's been a long time since I saw the film, but from what I can remember, I agree with TML. The character seemed largely a creation for toy merchandising & Halloween costume sales. He was little more than a posed figure. Other than his twirling, he did very little.
Which gets back to Zombie's point earlier in the week of how Boba Fett was also just a posed figure, yet Lucas squeezed uber-mileage out of him.
As has been the case with Lucas since the early 80s; he doesn't need writers or actors. He just needs a design group and a marketing department.
Diego said:
And like a lot of other things in the prequels, he's only there so we can have yet another lightsaber fight, cause you know, having three fights in a movie is not enough, you need four or it gets boring.
I fell asleep during Obi-Wan's fight with Grievous.
I used to stay up all night watching the trilogy or playing the games. Then I fell asleep in the middle of the day watching a brand new Star Wars movie. That's when I knew all the fire had gone out of the relationship and we were never getting it back.
Fortunately, my brief nap left me refreshed for lightsaber fights #3 and 4.
None of this is really scientific of course. We could set up cameras to watch people's eyes while viewing the movies to track their attentiveness, or draw blood for stress hormones and endorphins after key scenes. We could also use EKGs, EEGs, plethysmographs, etc. to monitor physical arousal. Familiarity or recall can be measured by simple surveys, distributed at random to a large enough population. Advertisers and anti-advertising advocacy groups frequently use such surveys to measure mascot familiarity among children.
haljordan28 said:
the duel of the fates was good but it was just more of the prequel circus performance stuff. too many cheroographed spins and leaps. especially at the end after qui-gon is struck down and obi-wan rushes maul.
It's funny, I had the exact reverse impression - the two-on-one phase was "choreographed circus", but as soon as Darth Maul got them trapped in that bottomless pit room, things got more interesting.
First you got the fight with Jinn, where you clearly feel he's exhausted and not on par with Maul, and whisper it, there's actually some real TENSION in the scene (so we never got to know Qui-Gon that well, and he was kinda boring most of the time - so what).
Then, Obi-Wan's pumped... and pissed... but when he leaps at Maul, he remembers to stay focused and retain control over his movements, because he knows that if he just goes completely bollocks, he's gonna get his head chopped off in no time.
I dunno... maybe it's really just me in the whole nerduverse, but in my opinion, that sequences manages to capture and convey that balance between heat and anger, and focus and control Obi-Wan has to master.
Maybe it's the increased tempo and aggression of the fight, as compared to what's come before, combined with the beautiful and elegant choreography,.. not sure. The conclusion where Obi-Wan jumps up, obviously ruins everything. :D