ESB 70mm Soundtrack - 1980 in-theatre recording (Released) — Page 2

morgands1 said:

I can attest to the fact that shots of Leia, Han, etc., observing Luke in the medical center were not in the 1980 70mm version. I only saw those production stills taken on set after the film's run.

I believe what you say, and Mattessino's list of 70mm differences are also very trustworthy IMO, this guy apparently saw both versions of Empire in theatre about 70 times in 1980 and all his observations about the audio differences have since turned out to be true.

hairy_hen said:

Apparently most of the SE dialogue changes really were just revisionism,

Yeah, the mix was already perfect IMO, they just changed it for the sake of making it different it seems. One of the best things about the original mix that I think they totally destroyed with the SE-remix, are the subtleties in dialouge which makes the original sound so alive, take Yoda's teachings to Luke when he is on his back for example, where the surroundings intrude on the dialogue levels when they cut to R2, or when C-3PO on Chewie's back "I’m not supposed to know a power socket from a computer terminal" dial out in level as he is now further away from the action.

There are many examples like this in the original, but when it comes to the SE they just mixed the lines of dialogue at the same audable level no matter what happens on the screen. And the result is amatuerish and sound more like a bad dub in many instances. The only thing I like about the remix is the two intended musical transitions to the Imperial fleet.

hairy_hen said:

If msycamore says the length of the bacta tank scene is exactly the same, I believe him, because it certainly sounded that way to me.  They must have simply edited the picture differently but kept it the same length.  

I didn't make a truly exact comparison down to milliseconds though, just let the audio play over the GOUT video and it seemed to match up perfectly in lenght, so I guess the scene was just re-edited with the same audio supporting the scene.

You can find his list of differences in my post here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1977-70mm-sound-mix-recreation-stereo-and-51-versions-now-available/post/454341/#TopicPost454341

If you want me to upload the FSM magazine it originally appeared in, just give me a PM.

Also posted 5 years prior to this by Neil S Bulk here (interestingly, with the same grammar error - "to close and small").

Yeah, I may have copied Niel's old post when I did mine, but I think that grammar is in the original as well.

A comment and a question:

• It would be interesting to document the changes noted for this audio version with the changes noted in the ESB Super8 Puggo Edition, to see if any of them align.
• Where is this stereo 70mm Star Wars recording that was also described in the original post? Is it available for download somewhere?

Thanks!!!

hairy_hen said:

I completely agree with msycamore's assessment of the dialogue levels in the originals vs. the remix.  Virtually every line is at the exact same level in the SE, even when it doesn't suit the position of the characters onscreen; while the older versions put a lot of effort into creating a realistic sound field with varying levels as appropriate for each shot.  On top of that, you have utterly stupid things like Chewie letting a huge roar just as he is about the strangle Lando, completely drowning out part of Leia's dialogue in the SE, while neither original mix sounded this way at all.  It's the kind of sloppy, misguided foolishness that comes from re-doing something that was already pretty much perfect to begin with, long after the reasons for why it was done a certain way the first time have been forgotten.

Thanks for describing it a lot better than I did with my crude english. :)

Now that some time has gone since this wonderful recording surfaced, have anyone heard any other differences in terms of content compared to the 35mm Dolby Stereo other than these:

• When Luke runs out of the wampa cave, there is a sound of his lightsaber deactivating even though it stays lit onscreen, this error later reappeared in the Special Edition.
• The TIE fighter sound effects are different in the Imperial fleet establishing shot after Luke's failure at the cave. (Can be heard on the GOUT's Spanish and French audio tracks)
• Different laserfire can be heard during the snow battle, the sound used for TIE fighters instead of X-wings.
• The establishing shot of the rebel fleet at the end of the film doesn't contain tracked music. The two additional shots of the fleet added to the 35mm version required the tracking of a section of "Yoda and the Force" to precede the cue "The Rebel Fleet".
• Lando's line "Luke, we're ready for takeoff." is a different take. (The same take can be heard in the Special Edition)
• The exterior shot over which Lando says "When we find Jabba the Hutt and that bounty hunter, we'll contact you." is not in the 70mm version, instead when Luke says (voice over), "Good luck, Lando" the scene cuts directly to inside the rebel cruiser where Luke says, "I'll meet you at the rendezvous point on Tatooine."
• Lando's line "Princess, we'll find Han. I promise." is a different take.

hairy_hen said:

Am I the only one who thinks the 70mm version of the end scene actually plays better, in a way?  It sounds odd to me on one level because I'm so used to how they changed it, but at the same time the line about finding Jabba the Hutt is unnecessary.  Hmm . . .

You're not the only one, both in terms of music and rhythm it plays much better to me.

hairy_hen said:

Pretty surprising to me that the error in the cave scene was actually there originally.  That and the laser sound during the battle are things that were fixed for the 35mm, because they seem to be actual mistakes.  However, I don't know why the TIE fighter engine sound would have been removed. 

Yeah, I doubt you could actually see Luke deactivate his saber in the 70mm version but you never know. ;) The difference in those TIE engine sounds are a weird one, the 70mm mix sound so much better to me in this case, the familiar roar we're all used to hear, the TIE's in the 35mm mix sounds very weak and not at all how we're used to hear them.

Has anyone done or tried doing a GOUT synced 70mm ESB recording in 1 channel and either the the ESB Theatrical or 93 DC mix in the other as Belbucus did for the original Star Wars??

It was not brilliant quality but perfect for checking out those tiny differences. He did the same thing with ANH theatrical mono vs stereo which was simply brilliant!!