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Save Star Wars Dot Com — Page 25

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canofhumdingers said:

Holy moly...  I had no idea there were full length 8mm scope prints of the original trilogy....  Hello new collection holy grail! 

So, does anyone have any idea just how rare or expensive these might be?  I'm sure they're currently outside my budget, but it's something to work for!  Bluray? Schmuray!  Who needs that when I can have my own PRINT!

 As mentioned in the article, in terms of rarity they made at least 250 of them "but probably more", so maybe like 350. I'd say that is fairly rare, (though by Super 8 deluxe full-feature standards thats a large amount). But they rarely if ever appear on eBay or on trading lists because the few people that have them want to hold on to them. They cost 300 pounds when they were released in 1989, so I can only imagine what they would cost today. Just based on conversion 300 pounds ca.1989=550 pounds ca. 2009 using the retail price index, which is equivalent to about $900. Of course, these have become much rarer since 1989, because they don't make them anymore and they are few in number, and very hard to find. I don't know anything about Super 8 pricings, but based on this you'd be paying four figures. Although I don't know if it's value has gone down since then--it was expensive because it was the best way to see the film in 1989, while it's perceived value is not the same now. Derann did lots of films and they were all high quality so I would check out their other prices.

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SilverWook said:

Derann must have had two different sources for their Super 8, because the one I've seen is not from a French print, and shows some wear from the 35mm source material. 

Hmm interesting. Adrian Winchester surmises the release would have been retired due to negative wear, since all 250+ were struck right from the same negative, so maybe they replaced the original. In the review I posted, the writer urges people to get copies early so that yours isn't from a beat up negative.

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Yeah, like I said, I'm sure these would be out of my price range (for now).  But I'd be more than willing to fork over a few grand per film if I had the money.  I figured they'd be quite hard to come by also.  Maybe by the time I found one for sale I could actually pay for it...  It's a pipedream, I know, but it sure is a nice one...

It'd be really nice if we could get the right people together (namely, someone who owns the full length 8mm and someone like Puggo) and actually do a full transfer of all three films from 8mm.  That actually sounds more feasible than ever tracking down & buying all three prints.

Any chance the people you interviewed for that article would be willing to put their print up for telecine, Zombie?  (It sounded like at least one of the guys had the full length 8mm of Star Wars unless I misread it).

And, btw, thanks for all the efforts with savestarwars & thesecrethistory!  It is SO greatly appreciated!

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The owner of the Derann print has been through this with Puggo. The aforementioned problem is the maximum reel size his workprinter can take is 400 feet. The Derann is spread across four 600 ft. reels. Short of physically cutting up the print, and potentially destroying it's value, this is likely an insurmountable problem. Unless somebody knows how to make a reel with a slightly smaller hub or something!

Ironically, the ROTJ Super 8 that was on Ebay a few months ago was spread across six 400 ft. reels.

Where were you in '77?

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zombie84 said:

New page on the 8mm and 16mm (and a bit about 35mm) is up, though still slightly under construction:

http://www.savestarwars.com/starwarsonfilm.htm

If anyone has corrections or additions, feel free to speak up as always. Especially with 8mm, I am basically deferring to experts.

Very nice. And good to see the film's original colors and visual effects, if only in a few grainy screencaps.

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Silverwook, you mention that the Derann you saw did not have the french leader. Can I ask more about this if it is in fact a wholly alternate negative?
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And thus began my weekly adventure of a lifetime, the summer of my 15th year....

It really was a great film.

 

Forum Moderator
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Anchorhead said:

And thus begun my weekly adventure of a lifetime, the summer of my 15th year....

It really was a great film.

 

Wouah !! Beautiful colors, not like on the DVDs !!

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SilverWook said:

The owner of the Derann print has been through this with Puggo. The aforementioned problem is the maximum reel size his workprinter can take is 400 feet. The Derann is spread across four 600 ft. reels. Short of physically cutting up the print, and potentially destroying it's value, this is likely an insurmountable problem. Unless somebody knows how to make a reel with a slightly smaller hub or something!

Ironically, the ROTJ Super 8 that was on Ebay a few months ago was spread across six 400 ft. reels.

 A problem yes, but surely not insurmountable?  If the workprinter itself cannot accomdate a 600ft real, perhaps someone with an engineering mind could jerry-rig some sort of multiple reel addition to take up the slack?  I'm not very familiar with workprinters or transfering film or anything like that, but surely there's a way to modify the thing to accomodate an extra 200ft of film.  I assume the problem arises from the diameter of the 600ft reel being too large to fit in the mounting on the workprinter?  If that's the case, there's got to be a way to modify it. 

I realize my knowledge of all this is very limited and that people have probably already explored ideas greater than mine, but surely there's a way it could be done!

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I've got some duct tape!  And a wire coat hanger!

If only I had some gum.  And some dynamite.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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It's not that it's impossible, it's just to what degree it is worth the effort. I've already transferred a 16mm print, and while the Derann might be better, it also might be worse (judging from the resolution of the super8 Ken films I transferred). Projects this length take quite a bit of time (PG took an entire year, because I'm squeezing this stuff into the nooks and crannies of my schedule), and I have a queue of other interesting SW films on the way (not the least of which is ESB Grande). Doing a Derann print just didn't seem as pressing, especially since I'd have to figure out some way of actually making it work, without damaging something.

Also, keep in mind that the WorkPrinter isn't going to make the best possible transfer of a film.  Yes it will be better than a typical transfer house (especially since I care about it). But the very best transfers, such as a rank HD transfer, will beat it. But I'm still not even sure if the very best possible transfer of a Derann could compete with the GOUT.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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zombie84 said:

Silverwook, you mention that the Derann you saw did not have the french leader. Can I ask more about this if it is in fact a wholly alternate negative?

I might have some screencaps lying around somewhere. I'll post some if I can find them. It does have a title card for the UK distributor after the closing credits.

IIRC, It also has the Episode IV crawl and the stereo sound mix. Curiously, there are no Greedo subtitles.

Where were you in '77?

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Okay, here we go. Keep in mind this was done about five years ago, aiming a camcorder at a white sheet of paper taped to a wall! The camera focus was a bit off kilter most of the time, but you can see how nice the colors are.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4553/pdvd081s.th.png[/IMG]

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http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/446/pdvd083.th.png[/IMG]

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http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8011/pdvd102.th.png[/IMG]

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http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3535/pdvd103.th.png[/IMG]

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http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4973/pdvd113.th.png[/IMG]

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http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1384/pdvd144.th.png[/IMG]

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http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8958/pdvd174.th.png[/IMG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Where were you in '77?

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Wow, excellent picture quality from the print. The Chewbacca shot looks properly focused and you see how much detail there is.

I'm curious though, if the print doesn't have a leader on it from France, do you know what info was on the leader?

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a few seconds in photoshop and you get this:

wow! (click to get full size)

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Leonardo said:

a few seconds in photoshop and you get this:

wow! (click to get full size)

Cool. I'll take this over a BR special edition any day.

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WOW! Nice screen caps, SilverWook! Hope this eventually finds a way to get transferred.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

(not the least of which is ESB Grande)

*spits out drink* WAIT?! When did you announce this? A partner to the Puggo Grande would be so awesome! Long live, ESB Grande!

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zombie84 said:

Wow, excellent picture quality from the print. The Chewbacca shot looks properly focused and you see how much detail there is.

I'm curious though, if the print doesn't have a leader on it from France, do you know what info was on the leader?

I'd have to arrange a screening of the print again to find out, as I don't know where the DV tapes those screencaps were originally taken from are at currently. Wish I could tell you more.

Where were you in '77?

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delete:

 

 

I saw Star Wars in 1977. Many, many, many times. For 3 years it was just Star Wars...period. I saw it in good theaters, cheap theaters and drive-ins with those clunky metal speakers you hang on your window. The screen and sound quality never subtracted from the excitement. I can watch the original cut right now, over 30 years later, on some beat up VHS tape and enjoy it. It's the story that makes this movie. Nothing? else.

kurtb8474 1 week ago

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=SkAZxd-5Hp8


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zombie84 said:

Reading his statements is actually pretty scary. Scary because:

1) he predicted the precise problem in the situations we now face

2) it's amazing how much George Lucas 1988 feels the same about cinematic preservation as I do, but most importantly

3) he predicted every type of digital alteration that he would eventually put to use in the SE as a threat.

Listen to this:

"My name is George Lucas. I am a writer, director, and producer of motion pictures and Chairman of the Board of Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-faceted entertainment corporation.

I am not here today as a writer-director, or as a producer, or as the chairman of a corporation. I've come as a citizen of what I believe to be a great society that is in need of a moral anchor to help define and protect its intellectual and cultural heritage. It is not being protected.

The destruction of our film heritage, which is the focus of concern today, is only the tip of the iceberg. American law does not protect our painters, sculptors, recording artists, authors, or filmmakers from having their lifework distorted, and their reputation ruined. If something is not done now to clearly state the moral rights of artists, current and future technologies will alter, mutilate, and destroy for future generations the subtle human truths and highest human feeling that talented individuals within our society have created.

A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

[snip]

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as "when life begins" or "when it should be appropriately terminated," but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavir. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with thier computers can add color to black-and-white movies,

change the soundtrack,

 

speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder.

 

 Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces."

 It will soon be possible to create a new "original" negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires.

The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely dilligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten."

That's George Lucas, I just have to remind again. That's only about 40% of his full letter, but it's representative of the whole thing. What the fuck happened to this guy? He sounds like was pretty cool.

I thought I posted earlier here. I posted some screenshots of the color screwups in a couple of facebook groups including Adywan's Empire Revisited. I would be more than happy to share any additional pics I've got or give suggestions to make it visually clearer.

About the Lucas testimony above, someone said it would be nice to make a video but you'd need Lucas' voice. You could impersonate it or you could just do something like the voice over in the Red Letter Media reviews.

Actually, Mike Stoklasa is pretty clear that he's not a fan of the special editions, I wouldn't be surprised that he hasn't done a review of those alterations. Maybe he might be willing to do so. Or not.

Either way, I don't see why somebody couldn't make an interesting video showing the difference between letterbox and animorphic, explaining how it is possible to see the films restored without changing them and how no, 1993 video tape master is not the best a 1977 film can look. Movies shot on 35mm film are actually better than HD but some people seem to think oh digital must be better.

In fact Episode II looks the worst of any Star Wars movie because it was shot on video.

I could make a video but I don't have the time at the moment like I suspect many others.

What if we thought about making a script together and having all the photos and videos compiled so that one of us would only have to record the thing?

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Another thing I have to add, anybody read MAD Magazine. Well they recently came out with a book compilation of all their Star Wars parodies and other articles. One of them was their speculation about what George Lucas should change for the upcoming special edition release in 1997. Their suggestions were mostly current references like using R2-D2 to download cyber porn, have the whole cast hang out in a coffee shop like Friends, Leia lap dance on Jabba (if she can find it)...

But what is interesting is their opening description.

MAD # 354, February 1997

"Updating Star Wars for the Future."

"Next spring, George Lucas is releasing a version of his Star Wars Trilogy, digitally remastered sound and never before seen clips from all three movies. In other words, he's going to make the lightsabers orange instead of red, turn up the bass on the soundtrack and add three minutes of scenes that should have stayed on the cutting room floor. Too bad, because Lucas had a golden opportunity to make the Star Wars Trilogy much more au courant!"

If that's not prophetic enough, try the Frank Jacobs article form # 230 April 1982 where it mentions a future movie number 2 in the series will be "Send in the Clones" and other future films will reveal Darth Vader might be half droid father of Han Solo and C3PO and Luke's father "is revealed as none other than the force."

yes there are margins where Jonathan Bresman (who worked for MAD and LFL, he was Jar Jar in the early video test) points a lot of this out.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger