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Star Wars coming to Blu Ray (UPDATE: August 30 2011, No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!) — Page 78

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TV's Frink said:



Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:


bkev said:

Some people need to understand these are just movies, even if we'd like to see them the right way...


No, they are not just movies.  That's like saying that the Mona Lisa is "just a painting".  Both are major cultural artifacts.


Sure, they are major cultural artifacts and should be preserved.  They aren't just movies.  But they aren't a cure for cancer either.

All bkev wants is a little perspective.

I think TV's Frink put my opinion best. I believe in the cultural value of Star Wars, don't get me wrong. Certain people's attitudes just need to be put into perspective.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I don't know what everyone is so worried about.  If Fox does to SW what they did to Avatar, your player won't be able to get past the DRM anyway, so any further changes to the films will be irrelevant because you won't be able to see them.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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The DRM copy protection is so new and so heavy that a lot of players can't play the disc because the player thinks it's a bootleg.  And this is AFTER doing firmware updates.  There have been reports - though not as many - of people having the same problem with the Alien Quad BD set.

So the bottom line is that Fox is trying so hard to combat piracy that people are resorting TO piracy just to be able to see the movie they can't see because of Fox's efforts.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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Urgh, I hate DRM. It's exactly the same with PC games. Their efforts to combat piracy only inconveniences those who actually pay for the product. Not the pirates, who have all the DRM removed for them by other, smarter pirates. Why can't publishers see how counter-productive it is? When I bought Bioshock 2 for example, I had to download a crack designed for a pirated copy just to get it working. It's the same for almost every new game I buy.

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Indeed, it's completely ridiculous. I seriously doubt that this kind of DRM enforcement is even needed, aren't you still hearing about films shattering box office records every year or two? The film industry isn't in ANY financial danger.

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One of the most interesting things I've read about piracy and copyright was strangely in the words of Liam Gallagher:

“I hate all these big, silly rock stars who moan – at least they’re fuckin’ downloading your music, you cunt, and paying attention, know what I mean? You should fuckin’ appreciate that – what are you moaning about? You’ve got fuckin’ five big houses, so shut up,”

Most of people here in Argentina take it that way, infact.

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You'd be surprised at how many touring musicians, people with followings, full-length albums, record deals, etc. Barely make a middle class living off of their music. Most are lucky to get that even, there are plenty of established bands that still have to work second jobs.

The giant super-rich rockstar is a very extreme minority, really.

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Mithrandir said:

One of the most interesting things I've read about piracy and copyright was strangely in the words of Liam Gallagher:

“I hate all these big, silly rock stars who moan – at least they’re fuckin’ downloading your music, you cunt, and paying attention, know what I mean? You should fuckin’ appreciate that – what are you moaning about? You’ve got fuckin’ five big houses, so shut up,”

 

"Interesting." Yeah, that's one word for it.

 At what point does someone not deserve to get compensated for their labor? What's the exact dollar ammount where it's now 'enough' and it's ok to steal from them?

Is it the same for civil engineers or financial planners as it is for musicians?

If I develope a cure for a disease and people steal if from me, should I just be happy people are enjoying my cure?

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TheBoost said:

If I develope a cure for a disease and people steal if from me, should I just be happy people are enjoying my cure?

must..... resist.... obvious... Simpsons quote....

 

 

 

 

ugh... CAN'T.... RESIST!!

 

Marge Simpson: Well, Homer, maybe you can take some consolation in the fact that something you created is making so many people happy. 

Homer Simpson: [sarcastic voice] Ooh, look at me! I'm making people happy! I'm the Magical Man from Happy-Land, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane! 

[walks out, slams the door, then sticks his head back in] 

Homer Simpson: Oh, by the way: I was being sarcastic. 

Marge Simpson: Well, du'uh.

 

 

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TheBoost said:

Mithrandir said:

One of the most interesting things I've read about piracy and copyright was strangely in the words of Liam Gallagher:

“I hate all these big, silly rock stars who moan – at least they’re fuckin’ downloading your music, you cunt, and paying attention, know what I mean? You should fuckin’ appreciate that – what are you moaning about? You’ve got fuckin’ five big houses, so shut up,”

 

"Interesting." Yeah, that's one word for it.

 At what point does someone not deserve to get compensated for their labor? What's the exact dollar ammount where it's now 'enough' and it's ok to steal from them?

Is it the same for civil engineers or financial planners as it is for musicians?

If I develope a cure for a disease and people steal if from me, should I just be happy people are enjoying my cure?

 I think a lot of people would put art in a different category than medicine or engineering or any other "job." But there is also a very good point Quackula made that most musicians that are semi-famous, have deals and fans, are on the radio, etc., don't make a whole lot of money and struggle to enjoy a middle-class lifestyle. The flipside, of course, is that downloading doesn't make much of a dent in their income because most of it comes from concerts and merchandising. If musicians had to rely only on CD sales they'd have to give up and get a real job.

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Also there's the fact that most people who pirate stuff are people who wouldn't purchase the product otherwise anyway, so they don't represent 'lost sales'.

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it would be cool if they redid the original trilogy in 3d but have all the actors do everything the same. get people who actually look like the original actors and can sound like them maybe the new trilogy to but cut out the political bullshit

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I think for everyone who is alive, we should make them reshoot everything as they are now.

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 (Edited)

TheBoost said:

Mithrandir said:

One of the most interesting things I've read about piracy and copyright was strangely in the words of Liam Gallagher:

“I hate all these big, silly rock stars who moan – at least they’re fuckin’ downloading your music, you cunt, and paying attention, know what I mean? You should fuckin’ appreciate that – what are you moaning about? You’ve got fuckin’ five big houses, so shut up,”

 

"Interesting." Yeah, that's one word for it.

 At what point does someone not deserve to get compensated for their labor? What's the exact dollar ammount where it's now 'enough' and it's ok to steal from them?

Is it the same for civil engineers or financial planners as it is for musicians?

If I develope a cure for a disease and people steal if from me, should I just be happy people are enjoying my cure?

 Well, that's where the social idiosincrasy starts to play. For instance, here we've got one the highest rates in universitary population in the whole american continent (don't know what the rates of Cuba are), and College happens to be public here (in case you want good education, if you want just a degree, you can go to private universities). By public, it means, you don't pay, although it doesn't mean "free", for it is sustained by the State, and utterly, the civil society's taxes. So most of professionals here have it clear that, in some way, their achievements are product of the collective effort of a society who payed their studies. This, for some people, is indeed a "moral debt"; and even if we all have some point of individuality, and ambition, no one lives and progresses completely on their own. At least, this is how I see somethings in this part of my life...

Besides, I wouldn't underestimate the market, surely they'll find someway to solve this "piracy" problem and keep making money.

And regarding what's been said above about professional middle-class musicians; I think that the worst thing you can do to those people is, instead of downloading their music, not recognizing who the author is (don't know, by changing the name, or confusing their voices with other musicians). If that people upload their music to Internet perhaps they're looking for people who pays attention to them, and maybe they could have fame first on youtube or some site, and then reach to sign a contract. Honestly I don't think there are plenty of middle class musicians whose files are there being pirated, Cinema industry is even wealthier than musical, and it took me a good time to find a site where I could watch some USSR movies. Don't know, perhaps I'm giving my point from a very parcialized place, our market is not as extense as yours; bands here rarely have "merchandising". What's more, it's common between musicians to measure their success by "being" (appearing in) a sticker, a t-shirt; a student bag, etc, but while they're in the underground time of their careers, no one pays for copyright, or commercial name rights, and at some point, they're ok with that if it leads them to a path of success and an increase in public recognition. Not that here people are not jealous at all of their own production, but it seems to be that they're less than in other lands.

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zombie84 said:

TheBoost said:

Mithrandir said:

One of the most interesting things I've read about piracy and copyright was strangely in the words of Liam Gallagher:

“I hate all these big, silly rock stars who moan – at least they’re fuckin’ downloading your music, you cunt, and paying attention, know what I mean? You should fuckin’ appreciate that – what are you moaning about? You’ve got fuckin’ five big houses, so shut up,”

 

"Interesting." Yeah, that's one word for it.

 At what point does someone not deserve to get compensated for their labor? What's the exact dollar ammount where it's now 'enough' and it's ok to steal from them? Is it the same for civil engineers or financial planners as it is for musicians? If I develope a cure for a disease and people steal if from me, should I just be happy people are enjoying my cure?

 I think a lot of people would put art in a different category than medicine or engineering or any other "job." But there is also a very good point Quackula made that most musicians that are semi-famous, have deals and fans, are on the radio, etc., don't make a whole lot of money and struggle to enjoy a middle-class lifestyle. The flipside, of course, is that downloading doesn't make much of a dent in their income because most of it comes from concerts and merchandising. If musicians had to rely only on CD sales they'd have to give up and get a real job.

I think that defending downloads/theft because it's a small part of an artists income anyways is a very different argument that Mithrandir's/Lliam Gallagher's argument that it's valid to rob someone if that person is successful.

And doesn't it show a certain contempt for an artist to say it's alright to steal the fruits of their years of practice, struggle, and hard work without compensating them because they're "artists" but its not okay to do the same to any other craft?

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 (Edited)

I explained myself a little more above, hope you read it, since I kinda like this discussion; I'm trying to make a point, intellectual-property-problem isn't an issue of which I have a closed opinion. I often think about it, though never take a defined position. That's why I said, Liam's words were interesting.

  I'm not defending robbery, I'm just saying that in this side of the world, and strangely for a personality like Liam Gallagher (whose oftenly superb-egocentric declarations led me to think he was gonna say something different) too, the line which determines what's yours, what's mine, and what's ours is not as well defined as it is for the "first world" societies.

Robbing is bad; in all its ways. However some social structures and mechanisms of production encover robbery in a way; and we just accept it.

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 (Edited)

This reminds me of a very interesting interview with Coppola I read this week.

"How does an aspiring artist bridge the gap between distribution and commerce?
We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Artists had a patron, either the leader of the state or the duke of Weimar or somewhere, or the church, the pope. Or they had another job. I have another job. I make films. No one tells me what to do. But I make the money in the wine industry. You work another job and get up at five in the morning and write your script.

This idea of Metallica or some rock n’ roll singer being rich, that’s not necessarily going to happen anymore. Because, as we enter into a new age, maybe art will be free. Maybe the students are right. They should be able to download music and movies. I’m going to be shot for saying this. But who said art has to cost money? And therefore, who says artists have to make money?

In the old days, 200 years ago, if you were a composer, the only way you could make money was to travel with the orchestra and be the conductor, because then you’d be paid as a musician. There was no recording. There were no record royalties. So I would say, “Try to disconnect the idea of cinema with the idea of making a living and money.” Because there are ways around it."

From: http://the99percent.com/articles/6973/Francis-Ford-Coppola-On-Risk-Money-Craft-Collaboration

I don't think he is actually proposing making all movies and music for free, because he probably is capable of doing that himself yet he clearly charges money to see his films (actually, it's really the exhibitors and distributors, but that's another issue), but it's a good thought exercise anyway.

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jasten_merrel said:

it would be cool if they redid the original trilogy in 3d but have all the actors do everything the same. get people who actually look like the original actors and can sound like them maybe the new trilogy to but cut out the political bullshit

Um, no.Welcome to the forum by the way.

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zombie84 said:

This reminds me of a very interesting interview with Coppola I read this week.

"How does an aspiring artist bridge the gap between distribution and commerce?
We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Artists had a patron, either the leader of the state or the duke of Weimar or somewhere, or the church, the pope. Or they had another job. I have another job. I make films. No one tells me what to do. But I make the money in the wine industry. You work another job and get up at five in the morning and write your script.

This idea of Metallica or some rock n’ roll singer being rich, that’s not necessarily going to happen anymore. Because, as we enter into a new age, maybe art will be free. Maybe the students are right. They should be able to download music and movies. I’m going to be shot for saying this. But who said art has to cost money? And therefore, who says artists have to make money?

Interesting. I imagine it's easy to have deep Bohemian thoughts sitting in one's mansion drinking your own vanity wine label though.

I just can't shake the feeling that if someone labors to create something that is then enjoyed by a great many people, that person is owed something.

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jasten_merrel said:

it would be cool if they redid the original trilogy in 3d but have all the actors do everything the same. get people who actually look like the original actors and can sound like them maybe the new trilogy to but cut out the political bullshit

Just when I thought Star Wars couldn't possibly lose any more of what little dignity it has left...

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well sorry i just thought that would be cool to see i dont want them to holly wood it keep it the same script actors who look like the real actors and same actions

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Ziggy Stardust said:

jasten_merrel said:

it would be cool if they redid the original trilogy in 3d but have all the actors do everything the same. get people who actually look like the original actors and can sound like them maybe the new trilogy to but cut out the political bullshit

Um, no.Welcome to the forum by the way.

ok thanks anyways

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jasten_merrel said:

well sorry i just thought that would be cool to see i dont want them to holly wood it keep it the same script actors who look like the real actors and same actions

Don't take it too personally; you're entitled to your own opinion here.

The way things have been going at the movies, it wouldn't surprise me if Hollywood decided to do just that... But while GL is still around it will never happen.

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What on earth would be the point of remaking the films so that they're exactly the same as they were before?