Asteroid-Man said:
Akwat Kbrana said:
So regarding the PT as badly-acted is elitist, but asserting with equal dogmatism that the entire saga is badly-acted is...what, fair & balanced?
they're incredibly cheesy - people take their love of the original universe created and blow it out of proportion.
See, in my opinion this is far more elitist than the manifold complaints about the PT's poor writing, acting, and execution. You're basically saying that those who prefer the OT over the PT don't have valid opinions because their opinions have been distorted by nostalgia. And that's a lot more elitist than anything RLM and his fans are saying.
First of all I never said the saga was "badly-acted", I said the acting wasn't it's strong point - for example, look at an ensemble cast like that of in BB/TDK and even LOTR and compare it to SW. Saying "the acting in SW is amazing" is just naive and biased. Look, I LOVE Star Wars, but even I can admit Hamill's acting in the SW and ESB wasn't anything special... ESPECIALLY his reaction to Vader's revelation.
That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying those who unconditionally see the OT as perfection and the PT as pure dribble have their opinions distorted by nostalgia - so if you think everyone at OT unconditionally loves the OT and sees it as perfect then I guess you would take it that way, but most people on these forums can point out the flaws to even the OT.
Bingowings said:
Asteroid Man
Sorry but that's daft.
The acting in ROTJ is a bit hit and miss at times but the acting the first two films is essentially cheese free but the important thing is it's acting.
The actors are creating realistic feeling characters rather than just reciting lines and avoiding or aiming for chalk marks on a green floor.
Carrie Fisher as Leia in SW was not good, neither was Anthony Daniels as C3PO in any of the films, or the extras (Kantina Bartender for example). In ESB, Hamill's acting in ESB is his worst performance I've seen (then again I don't really follow his career and I think his acting as the Joker is some of the best voice acting I've ever heard) - just look at his reaction to Vader's revelation.
And you REALLY think SW isn't cheesy? ...honestly? It's incredibly clicheed and formulaic - but the formula works, which is why the films appeal to so many people. 3PO is filled with nothing but cheese, Solo has a lot of cheesy one liners (which is what initially made him so appealing), and there are an incredible amount of re-occurring cheesy lines throughout the saga, like "I've got a bad feeling about this..." Better yet, from Luke blowing up the Death Star and onwards in the first film...
Look, I'm not pointing out the flaws in the PT because they needn't be addressed - everyone is aware of them... I'm trying to simply give people some insight on the sad reality - you want to compare SW to some virtually cheese-less and incredibly acting films (by the entire cast)?
Inception, Toy Story 3, The Lion King, The Dark Knight, Gladiator, Batman Begins, Lord of the Rings, 500 Days of Summer, The Count of Monte Cristo, Road to Perdition, The Prestige, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, The Prince of Egypt, Hotel Rwanda, Equilibrium, Star Trek (the newest one), The Godfather, The Stoning of Soraya M and hell even Tron: Legacy (I'm just talking about the acting and the amount of cheesy moments - not to say those films don't have them either, just that if you compare those films to SW, you'll see a CONSIDERABLE difference.)
Um, Anthony Daniels not good? WHAT? His movement and voice acting pretty much defined an iconic character - sure the character is pure unadulterated cheese, but cheese has nothing to do with quality.
General Grievous is made of 100% ham and cheese, yet he's awesome for what he is.
Flash Gordon 1980 is made with the sole purpose of being as cheesy and silly as it gets, and it's 100% genuine awesomeness.
The Bartender had just like 1 minute on screen, but I honestly can't tell what problem you have with his acting - his role was the grim, gloomy barman from the smoky, gritty Western bar, where any moment a pistolero can enter through the double door and start making trouble, and he pulled it off marvelously.
Sure, nothing against that guy in Desperado... but hey.
Also I seem to be in the minority of people who actually don't laugh at Luke's Big No from ESB. Just like the Emperor in the last movie, the "overacting" could've easily come off as bad and silly, but because it worked, it didn't to me. But whatever...
let's look at that nice list of "virtually cheese-less movies" of yours, that contains both the Lion King and the Godfather in one sentence... good god.
Inception
Leo's acting was pretty cheesy - he just had this "cool" grim "troubled by life" expression on his face almost the whole time, I think it was cartoony and artificial. Good for the movie, I guess...
Toy Story 3,
Haven't seen those movies, but come on... the looks alone....
The Lion King,
Whaaaa-a-a-a-a-t?...
First of all, it's a fucking DISNEY CARTOON WITH TALKING ANIMALS. Good god... all the "acting" in there is over-emphasized and over-stated (like PT Yoda's), card-carrying, sinster-looking villain with a demonic fucking VILLAIN SONG, then those two obnoxious side kicks... what?!
The Dark Knight,
Bat's voice is, according to unanimous consensus, incredibly cheesy and takes one out of the movie.
The Joker, while considerably more "serious" than this character's other incarnations, is still pretty damn cheesy with his overstated acting and cartoony tongue-licking, compared to any kind of "serious" villain in a serious movie.
The best, least cheesy kind of villain behaves somewhat like a normal person (or maybe "somewhat" "different", see Uncanny Valley - if he's mad) and intimidates purely through his words and actions, and subtleties of behavior - not flashy, overstated mannerisms or saying things like "fly fly fly... fly fly fly".
Pretty hammy, the guy. Then, you've got lots of artificially inserted scenes like those kids playing with toy guns inside that car (WHY was it in the movie??), hamfisted patronizing catchphrases like "It's what we do, not who we are", or those two snobby guests complaining how they don't get to enter Bruce's panic room... geez.
NOWHERE in the league of the 60s's series, but come on... come on.
Gladiator,
Haven't seen that one in ages, but pretty cheese-less as far as I can recall. Except for Ralf Moeller and his hilarious death scene.
Lord of the Rings,
Those films are filled to the TOP with narm and cheese. Have you even watched them?
Road to Perdition, T
Extremely serious and cheese-less as far as I can recall. Not even crazy Daniel Craig. Or that assassin who makes photographs of his victims.
, The Prince of Egypt,
Um, that Disney's film about Moses? SERIOUSLY?
Hotel Rwanda
Haven't seen that one, but yea, I love how you put that movie on one list with fucking Lion's King.
, Equilibrium,
For a movie built entirely on cheese and style, I admit it was pretty damn slick.
Had they wanted to completely avoid cheese, though, they'd toned down the action shoot-outs and done without the techno soundtrack.
Star Trek (the newest one)
Everyone met at school? That green goblin thing who constantly sit on things? SIMON PEGG? Eomer "all I've got left is my bones" Urban? WICTOR WICTOR 2? "oral sensitivity on multiple occasions"? YOMAYO??! SIMON FUCKING PEGG???
Chekov alone was a pure, unadulaterated (and awesome) Russian cartoon. Jesus Christ man...
(I'm just talking about the acting and the amount of cheesy moments - not to say those films don't have them either, just that if you compare those films to SW, you'll see a CONSIDERABLE difference.)
Sorry, no. You can't just throw in Star Trek 09 and LOTR, then embellish your list with stuff like Godfather or Hotel Rwanda and then think you've made a point somehow.
LOTR is only one cheese level below SW, and that's if you exclude EpV. Sorry, just no.