Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 300

You can see it in this photo:

But what does that have to do with the topic?

I think Luke made it for him, to remember him by...

:p

Dagobah is cold.

It would be a hard slog but it might be possible to replace it with the snippet or the snippet with the pendant and have a shot of a Luke style hand pick it up after Yoda's body goes and that could provide a visual link to help provoke Anakin's return.

Just a thought.

It is a shame that Luke and Leia's mother (a major PT character) gets barely a nod in the last episode.

Even if you look at the OT as a separate unit from the PT it's still a narrative weakness.

Bingowings said:

Taking a few of the furry chaps from ROTS or filming a good pair of fan costumes and adding them into the Endor battle should be possible.

 ROTS scoutroopers look almost the same than ROTJ isn't it? (apart that ROTS troopers are camouflaged...

And 'bout setting the action in Coruscant, or anywhere, is THAT impossible? I mean, for a single editor, well, it could be. But what if somehow a team is formed with the common goal of rotoscoping the necessary scenes, dividing the tasks? Once the work is finished they freely share the After Effects files between them and everyone does with those file whatever they want. I'm useless with After Efects, though it would be nice the idea of having a common source of resources just like LFL is doing with the soundboards (besides the movies, wich are utterly the common source).

is it that necessary that the saga portrays the actual fall of the empire? i keep on suggesting this, but ideas for changing ROTJ should be couples with ideas for changing the PT. if in episode 1, we are presented with a sense of a deeper backplot before the film, it would be appropriate that ROTJ ends with a suggested, yet open-ended finale. like the great ending SSWR posted.

I quite liked the idea of a fast forward epilogue using footage of the main cast in later roles.

Adjusted Slipstream footage would make for a fine Jedi Master Skywalker.

JasonN once looked into using footage from Slipstream for ROTJ.  IIRC, he said it was awful video quality.

I imagine that even that will get a blu-ray release eventually.

Hopefully with better resolution and maybe a clean up it would be easier to play about with to get happy results.

The AOTC footage is not colour correction it's an interesting effect (especially if you wanted to use it as a flashback) but as of itself it's way too sepia, too soft and too contrasty and really washed out to pass as actual events happening in front of your eyes.

The ROTJ footage is much of the same but too green as well.

Youtube uploads can play havoc with footage but from what I can see that's my verdict.

I think that apart from some parts that really need colour correction, the main issue with PT is saturation, and not colour balance.

The Anakin in the speeder background look really like taken from the clone wars animated series

The more I watch ROTJ the more I wish someone would A) redub Yoda's earlier lines so they sound more like Yoda and B) replace Michael Pennington's performance altogether and with someone more like Tarkin (not Tarkin naturally but like a younger version of him).

JerJerrod is so mincing and cowardly (not the actor's fault, that's the way he is written).

When Vader throws his weight around in ESB the officers react with dignity, efficiency and even a degree of snide inter-rank ambition.

That makes Darth's often arbitrary and frequently fatal discipline so effective.

These are real officers dealing with an enforcer with an unpredictable fuse.

Jerjerrod in the earlier draughts is much more haughty, aware of Vader's recent failures and willing to exploit them for personal advancement.

There isn't much in the way of room to put all of that into the film but if it were possible to replace him with someone more confident it could show Vader as being a position where he has to prove himself to the Emperor or be bold enough to stand up to him.

Bingowings said:

JerJerrod is so mincing and cowardly (not the actor's fault, that's the way he is written).

When Vader throws his weight around in ESB the officers react with dignity, efficiency and even a degree of snide inter-rank ambition.

That makes Darth's often arbitrary and frequently fatal discipline so effective.

These are real officers dealing with an enforcer with an unpredictable fuse.

Jerjerrod in the earlier draughts is much more haughty, aware of Vader's recent failures and willing to exploit them for personal advancement.

There isn't much in the way of room to put all of that into the film but if it were possible to replace him with someone more confident it could show Vader as being a position where he has to prove himself to the Emperor or be bold enough to stand up to him.

 I don't know if adding in Vader's office politics would help the story much. I think it might distract from the real story (Luke's story) and muddy Vader's already ambiguous motivations and feelings about the Luke/Empy situation.

I wasn't suggesting anything major just replacing him with someone who basically says the same things but not exactly shaking in his boots at the thought of Vader.

Vader is in a very different position in the final episode.

He is riddled with self doubt, his boss is trying to kill and replace him, having a Moff who stands up to him more would be more consistent with the direction his character is going in (maybe) and add to the motivations you describe.

When Vader says ,"Perhaps you can tell him when he arrives" it might make a refreshing change to have the station commander say something like "I intend to" he is working on tight schedule having Vader stomping around threatening to choke people all the time might actually slow things down.

The pay off line is still suggestive of a threat but it also acknowledges that Vader is now on 'not exactly stable' ground.

Bingo, you've been reading the early drafts, havent you?  The Revised Rough Draft is full of treachery and murder with Vader and Jerjerrod.  A sample:

11. INT. MAIN BAY Super Star Destroyer
As the shuttle settles onto the deck of the docking bay, Imperial ground crews rush about securing the craft. The bay is filled with an impressive formation of Stormtroopers, Guards, Star Captains, and Special Elite Units. As one, the thousands of troops snap to attention, and heads turn to the entrance of the bay. The door slides open revealing the dark Lord of the Sith, DARTH VADER. He walks past the troops toward the shuttle craft. ADMIRAL PIETT and several Star Captains are with him. The Admiral turns to Vader.

PIETT
Never before have I heard of the GRAND MOFF leaving the planet to greet someone. You are greatly respected, my Lord.

VADER
Or greatly feared. The disgusting little bureaucrat is attempting to lay a trap for me.

PIETT
He’s a fool to think that you would not know.

VADER
The Emperor’s counsel is no fool. He is very clever and quite dangerous.

Vader and Piett stop before the Imperial shuttle. The hatch to the shuttle swings down and a colorful platoon of the Imperial Guards lines up outside the ramp. They salute as a thin, evil-looking man descends from the shuttle. He is the GRAND MOFF JERJERROD. Vader salutes him, but Admiral Piett and all the Star Captains kneel before him. An effete covey of dignitaries descend the ramp, acting as if they have never been on a Starship before.

VADER
You honor me with your presence, My Lord.

JERJERROD
Yes, I know. (looking around) You may rise. All this fuss just for me, an impressive display I must say. (sniffs the air) Yes, well the Emperor sends you his blessing….

VADER
But he still refuses to answer my transmissions.

JERJERROD
I’m afraid he’s quite too busy.

VADER
Then why was I ordered to return?

JERJERROD
He feels your prolonged stay in the outer systems has not agreed with you.

Vader is very angry and it takes all the control he can muster to contain himself. Jerjerrod starts for the hanger entrance. Vader follows.

VADER
Don’t you toy with me.

JERJERROD
All right then…. the Emperor is disturbed with your failure to deal with young Skywalker and he has decided to handle the matter personally. You will supervise the construction of the Battle Stations; a task he feels will be much less demanding.

VADER
But, I have all but turned him to the dark side of the force.

JERJERROD
The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation. Skywalker is more powerful now, than before your feeble attempts to convert him.

12. INT. BRIDGE STAR DESTROYER
Vader, Jerjerrod and company walk onto the vast Star Destroyer bridge.

VADER
He can’t do this. The boy is mine!

JERJERROD
That seems to be part of the problem. It would appear that you still have some feelings for your troublesome offspring.

VADER
The only feeling I have for him is hatred.

JERJERROD
Then you should be thankful the Emperor has taken such an interest in him. The Emperor will turn Skywalker to the dark side, and then destroy the Rebellion in one swift stroke.

VADER
The Rebellion will not be easily crushed, and my son will not be easily turned.

JERJERROD
The Emperor will succeed, where you have failed. You are weak Lord Vader, more machine than man. The Emperor’s plan has already been put into motion. The entire rebel force is on its way to us, for one last, hopeless confrontation, so I suggest you prepare your fleet.

VADER
My son would not be so foolish as to fall into such a trap.

JERJERROD
Ahh but, he is not with them. Your son is on his home planet of Tatooine. He will soon be in our hands, and the Emperor will have his way with him.

VADER
Get off my bridge!

JERJERROD
As you wish…

The Grand Moff turns and walks off the bridge followed by the dignitaries. The Admiral and his Captains go back to their duties. Vader stand alone on the bridge looking out across the vast sea of stars.

VADER (to himself)
Luke, beware, you are the Emperor’s prey now.

Yes in that draught the shoe is on the other foot.

I was suggesting something of a middle ground.

E.g.

JERJERROD (wearily) : Lord Vader this is an unexpected pleasure, we are honored by your presence.

VADER : You may dispense with the pleasantries, I am here to put you back on schedule.

JERJERROD (brusquely) : That will not be necessary, we are on schedule, my personnel are working as fast as they can.

VADER : Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.

JERJERROD : We are understaffed as it is. Your methods would have... a detrimental effect, this station will be ready as planned. 

VADER : The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.

JERJERROD : I am in regular communication with the Emperor and he hasn't said anything to me but if we had more men then...

VADER : Perhaps you can tell him when he arrives?

JERJERROD  (nervously assertive): I intend to. 

VADER : Good, the Emperor isn't as forgiving as I am.

That makes the dialogue half way between his dialogue with Tarkin and Motti in ANH and pretty close to how he and Ozzel conversed.

That's not a bad idea, sir Bingo.  I like the cut of your jib.  Had you tried your hand at composing a scripted fanwritten science-fiction alternative?

No that was just a quick typo ladened example that popped out of my brain to serve as example of how one character can be replaced and change the mood of the conversation. I'm sure some else could do better.

Vader is at his best sparring against someone worthy of the effort and in the current version Jerjerrod to me just seems too soft a target which in the end weakens Vader's end of the conversation.

I'm hoping that the Force choke deleted scene appears on the blu-ray in a salvageable state because if his character was changed you'd want Vader to take him down a peg even if he can't kill him without giving the boss further annoyance.

Another benefit of changing the actor would be opening up possibilities like having the Moff turn the main weapon on the moon when the shield goes down etc.

Bingowings said:

Yes in that draught the shoe is on the other foot.

I was suggesting something of a middle ground.

E.g.

JERJERROD (wearily) : Lord Vader this is an unexpected pleasure, we are honored by your presence.

VADER : You may dispense with the pleasantries, I am here to put you back on schedule.

JERJERROD (brusquely) : That will not be necessary, we are on schedule, my personnel are working as fast as they can.

VADER : Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.

JERJERROD : We are understaffed as it is. Your methods would have... a detrimental effect, this station will be ready as planned. 

VADER : The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.

JERJERROD : I am in regular communication with the Emperor and he hasn't said anything to me but if we had more men then...

VADER : Perhaps you can tell him when he arrives?

JERJERROD  (nervously assertive): I intend to. 

VADER : Good, the Emperor isn't as forgiving as I am.

That makes the dialogue half way between his dialogue with Tarkin and Motti in ANH and pretty close to how he and Ozzel conversed.

So what would be the dramatic purpose of this?

We have a Captain talking in a way that makes both Vader and the Emperor less intimidating. He talks back to Vader and is ready to go meet with Empy, whom he talks to all the time. So the Moff, who has no real role in the bigger story, looks a bit cooler at the expense of the main antagonists. What is the benefit to the story?

The purpose would be to make the Moff more consistent with his rank and therefore making Vader look stronger because he is putting a realistic military officer in his place and isn't just bullying someone who is already terrified by mere proximity to him.

It makes for a more nuanced relationship between the military and the Sith Lord (like the one seen in the previous two films).

Jerjerrod ranks higher than a Captain, possibly as high if not higher than an admiral, Ozzel didn't get choked for not trembling in his boots he was killed for being incompetent.

The early drafts and the much more brasen trecherous version of JERJERROD has always intrigued me as well. It certainly would have been an interesting twist but I'm not sure how it would have all played out. I don't recall, but what happened to JERJERROD in the end of the early drafts?

In all the earlier versions Vader had enough of him and choked him to death either using the Force or with his hands (like Captain Antilles in ANH).

I always figured Jerjerrod was more of an engineer type, overseeing the construction, and would not be the final commander of the completed DSII, would make sense for him to be vary of Vader as he's smart enough to not try and piss Vader off.

Why was Vader giving him shit for not having the Death Star completed already? just being an asshole i guess