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Plot holes in the SW saga — Page 9

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We're Luke and Leia twins or just plain brother and sister?
If not, the movies suggest that Leia is older (she has memory of Padme and Luke doesn't)
Then again, Luke could have been seperated from his mother before Leia.
And well, Vader doesn't know about Leia, that's for sure, and I really don't think Obi-Won knew ("That boy is our last hope..." "No...there is another.") I think only Yoda knew the WHOLE story. Maybe r2-d2, cuz he's smart. Definitly not c-3po...if they didn't let him in on the plan to save Han, they wouldn't let him in on the luke/leia hiding plan.
Luke could be older tho cuz he knows a bit more than Leia, cuz Luke knew that Anakin was his father. But he could know that from his uncle (Luke knew who his father was, he just didn't know what happened to him...I don't think anyone on Tatooine did...how would they? it's too remote a planet that doesn't care about Imperial matters)

And about that scene (I have it memorized...it's one of my favorites...)
Admiral Motti says "ancient religion" ("you're sad devotion to that ancient religion hasn't help you conjour up the stolen data tapes...or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebel's hidden fort -- ack!"
Grand Moff Tarkin just says "religion" ("you, my friend, are all that is left of their religion")

Anyway, that's just one man's thoughts...keeping in mind I care just about nothing for Eps 1 and 2 and the EU. The EU is cool and all, it just doesn't interest me. And Eps 1 and 2 just plain suck.

tyler
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"Sister, so you have a twin sister" its a twin sister.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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It wouldn't make sense having an older Luke or Leia. What happened to Padme during the time it took for the younger one to be born? Besides, they are really twins. And the "Leia remembering her mother" thing, I belive she was raised by another woman who claimed to be her "mother".
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Yeah, if they weren't twins then that would mean Anakin would have to impregnate Padme again after she gave birth once already. It would have been a bit obvious to him then, don't you think?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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exactly.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Right, right. I forgot about the "twin" line.

I've always thought they were twins, but I didn't want to say they were twins, and then have someone prove me wrong, cuz I realized I wasn't sure. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I'm pretty sure they were hidden from Anakin before they were born, without him even knowing he had a child. I mean, if he knew they would have hunted him down much sooner. The Emperor knew about the "son of Skywalker" being really powerful, so if he knew earlier he would have hunted him down using his Emperor powers/resources.

Obi-Wan was sent to Tatooine to watch over Luke from afar, and when the time came convince him to learn the ways of the force (he tries to convince him to come to Alderan). Yoda no doubt told him to do that. Yoda I think was the mastermind behind it all. He knew who Luke has the potential to be, so he sent Obi-Wan to watch over him. But Yoda also knew how dangerous it was to keep the twins together and he also made sure no one knew they were siblings, giving Leia to Bail Organa. I really thing the only one who knew Luke and Leia were twins was Yoda and the only one who knew Luke was Vader's son was Yoda and Obi-Wan, maybe R2. R2 seemed to know alot about Obi-Wan.

Good point about Leia not necessarily talking about Padme in ROTJ. I never thought of that. She could just be talking about Bail's wife thinking that was her real mother, not knowing who her REAL mother was. It actually makes sense, cuz that would explain why she has memory of her mother and Luke doesn't.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out in Ep3. I hope George actually WATCHES the original trilogy before editting it, because we all know how many plot holes and continuance problems have cropped up since Ep1 and 2 came out....
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youre welcome JS.

hotrod, your avatar goes well with your last post, i can already see you crying...
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: HotRod
Again.......What plot holes...........

Name them????


Just wait until episode 3 is done, and I'll show you plot holes the size of sarlaac pit.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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lol.

and how would you feel if he patches the plotholes up in ep3?
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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I would feel cheated. I mean, he could use the following tricks to fix those plot holes:

* Amnesia (confirmed, is going to be used)
* It was all a dream
* Magic (or the Force)
* It was God's desire
* Telepathical powers being used off-screen by the characters (like, how did Padme know about the hanger)
* Sudden heart atacks (Padme? Dooku?)
* One of the characters is in fact created by some other character's imagination
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Maybe Padme knew where Dooku's ship was kept when she was put on trial with Anakin. Or maybe Anakin told her through the force. Or maybe the hanger can be seen off at a distance. Or maybe there is only one major hanger on Geonosis. There are a thousand possibilties. The only other plot hole I see for the most part is the Jedi ghost thing, why some disappear and some don't. Besides that, most are pretty small unless I am missing something.
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I hope that the ghost thing is explained on episode 3, but if it isnt, we just have to figure it out for ourselves:

Qui-Gon didn't disappear.
Anakin didn't disappear.

Obi-Wan did.
Yoda did.

Qui-Gon was Dooku's master.
Anakin fell for the dark side.

Both Obi-Wan and Yoda were good Jedi knights.

Hmn... I guess that reveals something about Qui-Gon... Maybe he did something we don't know... Maybe he is not the jedi we belive he is...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I doubt that Mr Lucas would fuck something that big up, the Ghost thing I mean.

It was such a important thing for Obi-Wan to say to Vader in ANH "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine", that if Lucas left that out in 3, then yes major plot hole.
But as it stands, at the moment I can't seem to find any.

Like I said somewhere before, wait till 3, then go on about plot holes.

As for Padme and the hanger, DJR seems to have summed that up nicely

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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I think it has something to do with their status within the Jedi order upon their "death". The ghost thing, that is.

As you've said, Yoda and Obi Wan were in good when they died, so they disappeared in the traditional Jedi sense of it all. Anakin obviously fell in with the Dark Side and I was always under the impression that Qui Gon was a bit of a rogue Jedi training whom he felt would make good Jedi not taking into account what the Jedi Council told him (they never supported Anakin, remember?)

But another theory has to do with a Jedi's preparedness for death. Qui Gon was slain in battle and this may be the same way many Jedi die in Ep 3. Yoda knew it was his time and accepted his fate. Obi Wan was the same. He did what he came to do and covered while Luke, Han, and Leia escaped. So he resigned himself to his fate and, hence, "disappeared." This wouldn't work for Anakin since he was Sith when he died.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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if memory serves, the EU did a fairly good job of covering this with the Truce at Bakura novel. Jedi can anchor themselves to another jedi if one is near by when they die. maybe obi-wan anchored himself to luke because luke's training wasn't complete. yoda knew that it was the will of the force and accepted his death, and luke was a full jedi when anakin died. i can't think of anything for qui-gon, except that maybe he felt that obi-wan was ready to be on his own and didn't need him. but i don't think he is gone- i read somewhere that in AOTC when anakin is butchering the tusken raiders, you can hear qui-gons voice telling anakin no. so it would appear that he is still around, at least watching over things.

who knows. maybe GL will straighten this all out.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
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about the Leia / Padmé thing: when watching the old trilogy I always thought that Padmé had simply married Bail Organa and died when Leia was still very young (5 or 6 years old) this would explain why she can remember her.
and Leia talking about another woman thinking it was her real mother would kinda destroy the magic of that momenet, especially of Luke's expression when he hears that.
"Last night, Darth Vader came down from planet Vulcan and told me that if I didn't take Lorraine out that he'd melt my brain."
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Originally posted by: Han's Girlfriend
about the Leia / Padmé thing: when watching the old trilogy I always thought that Padmé had simply married Bail Organa and died when Leia was still very young (5 or 5 years old) this would explain why she can remember her.
and Leia talking about another woman thinking it was her real mother would kinda destroy the magic of that momenet, especially of Luke's expression when he hears that.



"Leia's recollections as described in Return of the Jedi have no inherent flaws and are valid given the greater context of the saga. But I suspect those looking for contradictions always find them." -Pablo Hidalgo
Just the Facts: Padme Skywalker

I really do wonder about what that is supposed to mean, but as far as my own instict, I don't think GL would do something like that with Leia and it being Bail's wife, that is getting WAY too technical, past any comparison to midi-chlorians, it would ruin the emotion, intent, and answer to Luke's very specific question, "Do you remember your mother, your real mother?" Obviously, Padme is Leia's real mother and I don't even think a village idiot would try something different from that. I could be wrong though, but that is my take on it.
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You'rer not wrong man!!

Jesus people, wait till 3 is out!!

Man, the story's not even finished yet, and some of you are going on about things that will be answered in the new film.

It's already been stated that 3 will tie up all the loose ends.

Lucas has said that 3 will bring 1 & 2 plus 456 all together!!

Wait!!!!

Wall - head - brick - against - banging!!!

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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Man!!!!!

It's like me going on about the first LOTR film and saying "Well thats just bullshit the way he done that" or " Well that makes no sence at all"

Then watching 2 and 3 and thinking "Oh right yeah, makes sence now"

And again....I think for all Lucas' faults, he's not stupid enough to leave a big gaping plot hole in his baby..

For 30 years he's been doing this, I doubt he's gonna fuck it up now!

Unless you call the PT a fuck up??

Which I don't!

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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in case you haven't noticed HR, this is a *discussion* forum, means that we discuss stuff, and if we want to lose our time guessing about stuff that will be revealed in a couple of months anyway, why not? it's fun. you don't have to read those posts you know...
"Last night, Darth Vader came down from planet Vulcan and told me that if I didn't take Lorraine out that he'd melt my brain."
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Originally posted by: HotRod
It's already been stated that 3 will tie up all the loose ends.


So... watching episode 3 will be very much like watching a magician trying to break the record for most magic tricks done under 2 hours.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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true Hgf, we discuss stuff, but there are those that just dont believe in ep3. i believe in it.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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I always thought Jedi dissapearing had something to do with how strong in the light side of the Force you were.

Remember in Episode 2 Obi-wan checked the pulse of a dead Jedi who didn't dissappear. Anikan didn't dissappear because he had been evil until ten minutes before he died.

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