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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 204

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Lemonstein said:

 

I agree. But given that Vader's reveal at the end of Empire, and the conversation that he and Luke have in Jedi, it would be rather difficult to write the prequels without it spoiling the reveal. You would still have to establish Anakin as a character, in order for the reveal to mean anything. It might have worked had it been written that way, but personally I agree with what Lucas did, which was write it for an audience that already knew what happens later. It wouldn't have made sense to do it any other way.

A few decades down the line if people come to them totally new, it might have worked better had they been written how you suggest, but you can't write things in that way. You have to write for the people who are going to see it on release. And we all knew who Anakin Skywalker was.

Dude, when we watched the OT it meant something because this was Luke's father, not because it was Anakin Skywalker. It was because we gave a damn about Luke and we were surprised about who his father was as well as Luke.

 

And when Yoda tells Luke the truth in RotJ it's because we're concerned LUKE will follow the same path as his father, not because we care about Anakin.

Keeping the reveal a secret is a brilliant idea and can be done.

 

edit: Just make Darth Maul Darth Vader from the get go and be done with it. Keep him through all three prequels. Then have it established that a sith student takes the name of his teacher/rival when he kills him and takes over. To the victor go the spoils or something like that. So Anakin does really become Darth Vader.

It also drives home the idea that individuals lose themselves when they turn to the dark side. They become slaves literally in how they function and figuratively in the idea their real name is gone.

It would also add weight to Luke's line in RotJ: I know that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father.

And why Vader snaps back that that name no longer has any meaning for him. They lose themselves to the dark side all the way.

It's who he becomes after that matters to the OT. And it still makes the PT interesting enough on its own. It also gives some depth to the Sith and how they do stuff(which we barely got in RotS).

edit2:

So here's what you do:

 

You make the name Darth a title and Vader the name of an ancient sith lord. Like Darth would be like Duke, Lord, President, etc.

But Vader. Everyone was wanting to know where the name Vader came from. But Lucas just had Palppy pull it out of thin air in RotS with no explanation.

Well it's simple: Darth Vader is the name of the sith lord formerly known as Darth Maul.

You just make that guy Vader. Then people would see him come back as Grievous in RotS. So that by the time we get to Vader people would think "Damn Palppy's saving Vader again", not knowing it was Anakin. This would be the folks watching it 1-6 for the first time.

But even for those who have seen the films and know the secrets, they still get the full effect.

 

Listen man, anything is better than that "I shouldn't have done that!" What have I done?!" crap Lucas gave us from Whinykin in RotS.

 

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Lemonstein said:

 

I agree. But given that Vader's reveal at the end of Empire, and the conversation that he and Luke have in Jedi, it would be rather difficult to write the prequels without it spoiling the reveal. You would still have to establish Anakin as a character, in order for the reveal to mean anything. It might have worked had it been written that way, but personally I agree with what Lucas did, which was write it for an audience that already knew what happens later. It wouldn't have made sense to do it any other way.

A few decades down the line if people come to them totally new, it might have worked better had they been written how you suggest, but you can't write things in that way. You have to write for the people who are going to see it on release. And we all knew who Anakin Skywalker was.

This might be true if it weren't for the simple number system in place for the films. By how this reads the only appropriate way of watching the saga is watching it 4-6 and then 1-3, but the numbers screw that up... Lucas placed numbers to indicate what ORDER they are in. In other the words we were intended to watch them 1-6.

So, if that's the case, the secret becomes important again. Vital in fact.

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mrbenja0618 said:

This might be true if it weren't for the simple number system in place for the films. By how this reads the only appropriate way of watching the saga is watching it 4-6 and then 1-3, but the numbers screw that up... Lucas placed numbers to indicate what ORDER they are in. In other the words we were intended to watch them 1-6.

Lucas also "intended" the 2004 DVD screw-ups.

Watch them in the order they most make sense, not in the order a dude who has lost his mind insists on.

Also, I miss Lemon.  That dude is entertaining.

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If you were to watch them for the first time as 4-6, 1-3 (like my workmates' 4 year old son just before christmas), the shaggy haired young guy who appears beside Yoda and Ben at the end confuses (my workmate was given the 2004 OT box-set in Nov and was buying PT for his kid for xmas, came into work and was quizzing me on what was going on......he hadn't seen the OT movies since they originally came out......he couldn't believe how f**ked up the movies had become)

J

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Jaitea said:

If you were to watch them for the first time as 4-6, 1-3 (like my workmates' 4 year old son just before christmas), the shaggy haired young guy who appears beside Yoda and Ben at the end confuses (my workmate was given 4-6 in Nov and was buying 1-3 for his kid for xmas, came into work and was quizzing me on what was going on......he hadn't seen the OT movies since they originally came out......he couldn't believe how f**ked up the movies had become)

J

Funny, when I watch 6, there's no shaggy-haired guy...

;-)

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TV's Frink said:

Jaitea said:

If you were to watch them for the first time as 4-6, 1-3 (like my workmates' 4 year old son just before christmas), the shaggy haired young guy who appears beside Yoda and Ben at the end confuses (my workmate was given 4-6 in Nov and was buying 1-3 for his kid for xmas, came into work and was quizzing me on what was going on......he hadn't seen the OT movies since they originally came out......he couldn't believe how f**ked up the movies had become)

J

Funny, when I watch 6, there's no shaggy-haired guy...

;-)

Yeah, neither do I,.......and now neither does my workmate & his son.

J

 

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Not that I agree with everything in his reviews, but it's cool to see that RLM's dissection of ROTS has started up the discussion again and has everybody thinking about stuff in new ways.

One thing that Plinkett brought up that I was a little disappointed we didn't get to see in ROTS was the effects of the war on Coruscant. I understand that it was probably the safest planet to be during the Clone Wars, but the opening crawl states Grievous "swept" into the capital, so we should see some effects of that. Maybe we could take out some of the traffic in the skies and show some columns of smoke here and there. Maybe even show some burn marks on the Senate building. It's nothing too big and difficult to create, I think but would get the message across.

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SilverKey said:

One thing that Plinkett brought up that I was a little disappointed we didn't get to see in ROTS was the effects of the war on Coruscant....

That's one of many reason why the "Clone Wars" (2D) cartoon kicked ass.

Man... I love that cartoon so much. It tried to be amazing - despite the fact it was prequel related - and it succeeded on so many levels. Clone Troopers weren't pussies - we saw them kick ass and use all sorts of cool-looking weapons. Anakin and Obi Wan were both tough and even had comrade moments that showed us how friendly and loyal they were towards each other. General Grievous was stoic and darn intimidating - not like the coughing hunchback we got in ROTS. Droids weren't annoying (surprisingly!) and they even tried to flesh out some of the prequel background characters.

Those guys got it right. And they should make another one.

I was watching "Clone Wars" bonus features on DVD and, man, I can't even describe how much I respect those guys. They truly were Star Wars fans. I especially liked how they said they sat down and rewatched OT to try and bring their childhood memories back - what they thought  happened before ANH when they were kids. How they said - if you wanna make it good you have to go back to OT.

I know this pretty much off topic, but I just think that "Clone Wars" is what the PT should have been like - awesome.

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The suggestion about putting more battle related ground damage on Coruscant was one of the first I made on this thread and I was glad that RLM brought it up in his review.

There are a few things other than (or including) adding effects work that could be done.

Grievous is meant to be a master tactician and a formidable military leader but in the theatrical versions he comes across a very stupid comedy character (like most PT characters to be honest).

What if Grievous deliberately avoided damaging the capital not because of it's defenses but because of the division it would create with the Republic.

The Senate are safe in their chrome and crystal spires while the rest of the Galaxy burns.

This could be accomplished either by adding a line into the crawl or by replacing one of those unconvincing Senators and putting in a few new lines from a fresh actor expressing relief that breaking from this tactic has raised the Chancellor's popularity.

You could even have the Star Wars equivalent of a news real or newspaper swirl hologram where Palpatine after the battle says something like "I'm glad I was attacked. It makes me feel I can look the outer rim territories in the face".

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I really like the idea of a transtition for coruscant. You could have this really idyllic capital in the first film. A Utopian city state. Then the war comes. Refugees swarm in, etc. Riots break out. Mass building programs are undertaken to build the city even bigger.

Terrorist attacks occur.

 

 

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You have some of that in The Clone Wars series (though nowhere near enough) I can't see how changes of that magnitude could be integrated into the existing films.

There are a few mentions of refugees in AOTC but out the only riots we see on Coruscant are in the so called 'celebration' scenes in ROTJ:SE (change the soundtrack to that scene and you'd have an angry mob clearly venting their rage at helpless troopers and public monuments).

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Well this is a radical ideas thread. So we dont know now how to pull it off but video technology will catch up pretty quick.

 

Imagine if the first film had a more tranquil smaller coruscant. Like a small city with parks and open spaces, etc throughout. Then as the war prgoresses, people swarm into the capital to take refuge, huge housing programs are undertaken, and then city grows immensely as billions arrive from around the galaxy fleeing the war.

In fact in AOTC Anakin and Padme travel as refugees to Naboo(which should be changed to Alderaan).

 

Maybe refugees arrive on Coruscant and then are transferred to accepting worlds?

Available footage? No idea.

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So many movies with futuristic cities. somewhere in the closeups there should be some shots of citizens doing stuff.

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

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Bingowings said:

 

Finally what if Obi-Wan never gets official Council permission to train Anakin and they barely tolerate his defiance because they don't want Obi-Wan to leave the order?

That would set up the cold distance that the other Jedi keep between them and Anakin and make them come across as smart enough to remain constantly vigilant over his progress.

It would put more pressure on Obi-Wan as he is personally responsible for Anakin's training and not the Council.

As it is we don't really see Anakin in the temple between being rejected by the council in TPM and being a fully trained Jedi Knight in ROTS.

 

 

Something alittle like this Bingo? Dont mind the crude audio edits. It leaves everything at the end of TPM alittle more open to different possibilities about Anakins training, and Obi's thoughts about the Jedi order. More of the reckless Obi-wan, instead of the Jedi robot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqoUpHI72lc

 My Episode 3 Edit Reign of the Dark Side

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I like!

I'm not in favour of cutting the ending celebration from TPM. I assume you cut it (as you cut the scenes between the battle and the scene with Yoda) because you weren't changing anything, rather than because you'd want to remove it from a complete edit, but I'd still like to put in my reasoning for keeping it.

It doesn't contribute anything to the story, unless you take the idea that the Big Shiny Thing is the Kyber Crystal or the Lost Orb of Phanasticoria or whatever that the Naboo stole from the Gungans. But it's important if TPM is to work as a standalone movie (which as the first in the series it should, sequel hooks aside). If it's cut out, the movie is too obviously a first chapter; and it's too dark an ending for what is otherwise the lightest movie in the series. I also like what John Williams did with the scene: using the upbeat and triumphant rendition of what becomes, six films later, the darkest theme in the series.

The Hobbit: Roadshow Edition

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RoccondilRinon said:

I like!

I'm not in favour of cutting the ending celebration from TPM. I assume you cut it (as you cut the scenes between the battle and the scene with Yoda) because you weren't changing anything, rather than because you'd want to remove it from a complete edit, but I'd still like to put in my reasoning for keeping it.

It doesn't contribute anything to the story, unless you take the idea that the Big Shiny Thing is the Kyber Crystal or the Lost Orb of Phanasticoria or whatever that the Naboo stole from the Gungans. But it's important if TPM is to work as a standalone movie (which as the first in the series it should, sequel hooks aside). If it's cut out, the movie is too obviously a first chapter; and it's too dark an ending for what is otherwise the lightest movie in the series. I also like what John Williams did with the scene: using the upbeat and triumphant rendition of what becomes, six films later, the darkest theme in the series.

I disagree.  The scene is horrible all the way around and I approve of any edit that cuts it.

That is all.

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RoccondilRinon said:

If it's cut out, the movie is too obviously a first chapter; and it's too dark an ending for what is otherwise the lightest movie in the series.

I don't see how any on these are bad things. Why wouldn't the 1st chapter feel like the 1st chapter? What's wrong with that?

And who said that it's supposed to be the lightest movie in the series? Yes, I know what RLM said about the 2nd chapter, but - 1st of all, it's not an unbreakable rule. And 2nd of all - who said that Part 2 can't be edited to be even more darker?

Besides, if you look at the material we have - Part 3 will be the darkest. It's just unavoidable.

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If we're making an edit that's designed to be watched in chronological story order, I'd like TPM to be able to stand alone, as though it were actually the first one made, the way ANH does. By "first chapter", I mean it would feel too incomplete.

There's no rule that says it has to be the lightest movie, but as it stands it is, and giving it a downer ending doesn't fit the mood of the rest of the picture. You'd have to make a LOT of (otherwise unnecessary) changes elsewhere to make it fit. The Phantom Edit and Balance of the Force are both darker than TPM, but still lighter than any of the other movies.

The Hobbit: Roadshow Edition

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radical idea for prequels- so don't shoot me up too much - if we seperate padme queen and padme senator into two characters - could we make one ginger so mon mothma in rotj appears to be the same character?

very radical idea for rotj - i was thinking it would be cool if mon mothma in rotj could be replaced by a padme-alive, but has been in hiding character perhaps, but that would require some scene of her being reunited with leia and luke and explaining vader to them (cool, but impossible). - and of course scenes alluding to her death being cut.

i'd love it to be the show down between mother and father aswell to some degree.

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ben_danger said:

radical idea for prequels- so don't shoot me up too much - if we seperate padme queen and padme senator into two characters - could we make one ginger so mon mothma in rotj appears to be the same character?

Wait, what?

Are you saying to make mon mothma the same character as Padme?

Padme was a redhead?

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not quite. two choices.

if you split padmes two identities in TPM, make one mon mothma, and somehow add the mon mothma character into AOTC and ROTS as an operative character.

or

don't kill padme off, don't have anakin fearing her death etc. she just disappears at the end of ROTS. in ROTJ luke discovers leias identity, then enstead of mon mothma, a rebel general can introduces 'the former senator padme amidala', then an older padme is revealed. leia may be fully aware she is alive. perhaps luke could look at her and smile, and maybe grandma padme could look at him knowingly. she could give the address, and again, new actors brings lots of alternative exposition!

like all radical ideas, perhaps not straight forward, but surely would tie the sagas together a bit. (aside from jabba the seperatist...:P)