Look closely, my friends: see how the bottom wall is at the beginning of a ramp? :) That's why we don't see the chamber's rim in the next shot: it's below eye level.
Mistery solved!!! :)
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vaderios, I've no problem with the overall look of the 'surrounding' wall in the 3 'side onwards' shots personally, as the whole room has an indeterminate shape to it throughout various shots anyway. I'm content that the 'perspective' of those 3 'side onwards' shots give a good enough impression that it still 'surrounds' the 'chamber' that is somewhere behind Vader.
ImperialFighter said:
Ziz - you may be right, but I'm still not 100% convinced. The angles are deceiving, but I think the gap between the 2 props might just allow for it to be seen in the 'side onwards' shots too.
Exactly. He comes down the steps from his chamber, takes one more, and then up the platform. If it's only one step away in between, it should show in the side view as well, even if ever so slightly.
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euroherbal said:
Look closely, my friends: see how the bottom wall is at the beginning of a ramp? :) That's why we don't see the chamber's rim in the next shot: it's below eye level.
Mistery solved!!! :)
So you're saying nearly the entire room is elevated, safe for the sides, near the walls?
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euroherbal said:
Look closely, my friends: see how the bottom wall is at the beginning of a ramp? :) That's why we don't see the chamber's rim in the next shot: it's below eye level.
Mistery solved!!! :)
Not sure what you mean here exactly euroherbal. But I've just noticed in the 3 top shots I showed on the previous page, that it looks like the whole of the bottom step of the 'chamber' prop is itself 'raised up' a little with an angled bottom section. At the end of the day, the relative distance and height of the props to each other are a little easier to judge if you rewatch the footage a little.
I'll happily accept whatever adywan's take on it is at the end of the day, though. :)
ImperialFighter said:
I've just noticed in the 3 tops shots I showed on the previous page, that it looks like the whole of the bottom step of the 'chamber' prop is itself 'raised up' a little with an angled bottom section.
Your final 2 shots seem to indicate that much for sure.
It's as if the chamber's base declines inward at the bottom.
Almost makes it seem like a mechanism similar to a car crank.
EDIT: wouldn't that mean that, even with the camera angle being below ground level, the chamber base would definitely be visible in the side shot?
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Yes, RadiOn: even if the chamber was in a ramp, in the shot of the hologram room you would see the end step of the med-chamber... unless it is not a circular room, but an 8-shaped room and that step is hiding behind a pillar...
Give me a couple of minutes to draw a sketch :)
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ImperialFighter said:
vaderios, I've no problem with the overall look of the 'surrounding' wall in the 'side onwards' shots personally, as the whole room has an indeterminate shape to it throughout various shots anyway. I'm content that the 'perspective' of those 3 'side onwards' shots give me a good enough impression that it still 'surrounds' the 'chamber' that is somewhere behind Vader.
I dont know if you got what i said or my awesome english didnt got what you said :P
I wasnt pointing either the perspective or the details of the surroundings pylons.
I pointed the specific pylon behind vader (with the red line in my mockup) that had a hole in the middle. I fix that filling the whole like the other pylons have.
That needs to be fixed as subtle as the error is.
-Angel
Radi0n said:
EDIT: wouldn't that mean that, even with the camera angle being below ground level, the chamber base would definitely be visible in the side shot?
This is what makes that bottom 'step' more likely to be not too far away from the same height of the smaller, circular prop, I'd say. Although it's hard to tell. It just remains to be seen if adywan thinks it should be slightly seen in the 'side onwards' shots where the distance between the props is concerned, though.
vaderios - I think I see what you mean now that I've clicked on the large image link I posted on the previous page. But, I think you're wrong if that's the case, as the detail on those wall 'pylons' is different all the way around. I just think this one is meant to be similar to the detail that we see on the one that is behind the very front of the Emperor hologram in this shot.
I haven't got time to look at everything yet as i'm on my way out, but here's a picture of the actual chamber set from a different angle. one thing i do know is that there is nothing wrong with the pylon as it's the actual set. Only the top section, the ceiling, is a matte
Let's see if you understand my diagram: maybe (just maybe), meditation room and hologram room is not one big round room but a 8-shaped room instead (see top view). Being the meditation room in a lower position (see side vie) and the kneeling pad inside this raised hologram room, the final step of the med-chamber is hiding behind of one of the pillars sorrounding the big hologram room.
Sorry for the lousy sketch! ;)
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There is nothing wrong with the set pylons ady nor in the movie or in the pic.
I cant make this more clear. If i imagining things then correct me again.
-Angel
I'm still finding it hard to decide if we should see the step in the 'side onwards' hologram shot, or not...even with that behind-the-scenes shot that adywan's just posted. But I think so. Here's the shots again, to compare things easier on this page.
euroherbal, that actually makes perfect sense! :)
Then that would mean that the indentation in between the empty an "not-empty" pylons, is actually a small path leading directly into the chamber, much like you could imagine from the below shot.
EDIT: ady's behind the scenes shot actually supports euroherbal's theory.
Think about it. Both spaces have a black circular floor pattern, on top of a bigger, white one. If the room is an 8-shape, that would mean the 8-shape has an all-white floor, with two black circular shapes, one in each round.
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Nothing shows that its angled.
Apart the fact that in the previous chamber shots the officers should be angled.
Otherwise you can notice the viewscreen behind the chamber.
Veers inform vader and vader turns 180 degrees to view the screen. So i assume Veers had his back on the holo chamber .
From what part of the room piet enters to inform vader? We see him step up a level not slowing rising like a ramp.
If that is true then we can assume from the pic that ady posted they remove the chamber for aesthetic/artistic reasons
-Angel
Ah, I see what you were getting at now euroherbal, but I just think this doesn't work out either. I don't believe the set wall gives any indication that the floor is actually on an incline when Vader initially steps down towards the smaller, circular prop. It's just the shot panning down that may give that impression. On top of this, I don't remember any of the other shots of Vader's 'chamber' supporting this notion either, whenever we see the set...
I'm not sure about your actual '8' shape either at the end of the day, but I've noticed something else to think about now...
You'll notice in adywan's behind-the-scenes shot that the 'light grey' circle on the floor is cirling behind Vader on the platform...but in the bottom shot on my previous post...the 'light grey' circle is circling in front of him. Things have been moved around compared to how the behind-the-scenes shot is layed out...
If you look closely in the 5th photo of ImpFighter's sequence, you'll see the kneeling pad is INSIDE the verge of the black circle which has the med-chamber is in its middle.
So the BTS photo is not correct, as you can see in the hologram room still that the walls are reflecting on a "clear" floor (no trace of a dark circle).
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Maybe they had to make more room for Palpatine's big nose :)
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What I'm quite sure of is about how they used this set (because the two rooms is only one set).
Imagine that the BTS photo is correct for the hologram room: we have the tubes in the walls, the pylons, the black circle on the floor, the kneeling pad...
OK, now to convert it in the meditation room: move the meditation chamber in the center of the room, cover pairs of pylons with a false wall (only letting the tubes to be visible), add a false off-line screen and voilà! There's your meditation room ready to be shot (for the other shots of the meditation room in which the officers come and go they used a different set).
So, using the same circular room twice for two different contiguous "rooms" that would make an 8-shaped room in "real life", wouldn't it? :)
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Vaderios, I believe the room you are referring to in which Vader and Veers had their discussion, is a different room altogether. In fact, it's probably a hallway instead.
Check out my screens.
First Vader is seen on the left, after which he indeed turns 180°, but then walks away from the camera, and takes a right turn behind a corner, which is the exact same corner Piett passes when walking up to Vader.
Not to mention the next scene, after the space exterior shot, then showing him immediately exiting his chamber.
http://img256.imageshack.us/i/vaderroom1.png/
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8984/vaderroom2.png
http://img829.imageshack.us/f/veershallway1.png/
http://img715.imageshack.us/f/veershallway2.png/
EDIT: euroherbal, I still support your theory. I too believe Vader walked into a completely separate room, close to the hallway where he spoke to Piett, which is shaped like a figure 8. That room would both hold the hologram platform, and his meditation chamber.
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euroherbal said:
If you look closely in the 5th photo of ImpFighter's sequence, you'll see the kneeling pad is INSIDE the verge of the black circle which has the med-chamber is in its middle.
So the BTS photo is not correct, as you can see in the hologram room still that the walls are reflecting on a "clear" floor (no trace of a dark circle).
The dark SE colours make it difficult to see it properly, but I reckon the 'reflective' floor seen in the behind-the-scenes pic will indeed be the same one filmed when we see Vader descending his chamber...and during the 'side onwards' shots of the hologram too.
Here's a big version of the one of the 'side onwards' hologram shots for a clearer look - http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4872/starwars51954.jpg
Movie set set-up #1: The round set has the meditation prop wheeled into the center of it to get the shot of Vader walking out and kneeling on the pad. He is walking from the center of the set to the outer edge of the set, as indicated by the brown/gray ring in the lower photo.
Movie set set-up #2: The set isn't big enough to house the room for the meditation chamber prop and the area where the Emperor effect will be projected, so it is rolled out of the set and ol' Dave Prowse turns around on the pad to now face into the set to stare into ol' Chimp-eyed old lady.
You cats are thinking way too much about this. This is just an example of 'movie magic' where film makers have to make do with small sets in order to make them look much larger.
Sluggo, you just confirmed the entire thing is faulty and needs fixing :)
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Faulty? I think I'd just say Imperfect.
Needs fixing? I've never really minded it, but it is Adyman's call, so I'll be good with whatever he goes with.
I think i'm going to leave it the way it is. I think you would see a slight edge of the steps but it's so dark in that area it wouldn't really show up anyway. And the pylon is an actual set piece and is just a slight different design. Nothing to fix there. The floor in both chambers would be flat and it would indeed be a figure 8
