logo Sign In

THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released) — Page 13

Author
Time

erri_wan said:

msycamore said:

the DVD is to no use for us as they are for the "Director's Cut" with its many dialogue differences, that's why I've made a new English sub-stream for the restored original cut in the first place. At first I had planned to just fill in the blanks with the few audio differences you and SilverWook had pointed out, but when I found out that they had taken such liberties in the dubbing, it altered that plan. So, I'll need your help if I'm gonna do this.

Still, I can use most of the dialogues from the DVD, being careful with the re-edited parts and adding the extended parts (which we already translated). It makes the difference for me between accomplishing it in a month instead of four. I study medicine and I cannot dedicate a lot of time to re-translate an entire film from zero.

Yes, but again, why would you want to do that, when my srt file is a complete English transcription of the original cut your Italian cut is based upon. Some dialogue and scenes of the original and Italian cut doesn't even appear in the DVD version. So there is no way around it, the DVD is to no help if you want a complete comparison with the Italian dub. You will just need to alter the lines in my srt file where the Italian dubbers took some liberties. We're not talking months here, you will not need to re-translate it from scratch, I doubt it's that different. If you don't want to translate them right away just mark the differences you spot and post them here in this thread, and maybe Leonardo is willing to help out, the more the merrier. ;) here's my file, http://www.sendspace.com/file/pjp2y9  it's not synced and fine adjusted yet, but all the lines are there.

SilverWook said:

I won the original auction . The only other bidder didn't outgun me by very much. I suspect it was some bearded guy living on a ranch in Northern California. ;)

Hopefully, I can arrange a screening over the weekend.

Oh...so you did get it, you bastard! ;) I simply misread your earlier post about being outbid, that is fantastic! Congratulation. :)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Got your file myscamore, I will work on that, shouldn't take too long. Maybe we misunderstood each other while we were proposing the same thing. Work on your srt file will take no much time.

As for the Italian dubbing liberties, are you all sure you want those translated? They were afterall "liberties" taken by the translators (as they often do here), not direct orders from Warner.

We have other infamous translation liberties, one big example is from Star Wars ep IV when the "clone wars" Obi Wan refers to were translated with "Guerre dei Quoti" ("Quoti Wars", where Quoti doesn't mean anything at all, they just decided to invent a word!). In 2000s it became obvious when Lucas made "The Clone Wars" into one if his prequels.

When I select Italian subtitles on Star Wars IV, in that scene they correctly wrote "Clone Wars" even if in the dubbed audio track they say "Quoti Wars".

 

So my question is, do you really want to keep the Italian liberties that the dubbers took when translating THX and make them into the English subtitle or should we stick to the original subtitles no matter what the audio in Italian says.

I rest my case to you, whatever you decide if perfectly fine for me. I like the robot casually saying that the employees were going to be destroyed because oudated! lol

 

As for the time when we could chat one day, if I'm not mistaken noon in the pacific corresponds to 9pm here in Italy. SilverWook if you are ever free in late morning or early afternoon that would be just fine for me.

msycamore where do you live?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Thanks for helping out, erri_wan. :) If an avi file of the restored original cut will make your work any easier, let me know. The reason I am asking is because I realized it can maybe be a little tricky for you to locate the lines in my transcription sometimes, if you not have access to the English audio when the timings are all over the place. I don't know how familiar you are with the english audio, so it was just a thought I had if it will make the job of comparing any easier.

About the translating, SilverWook said he would like a word for word translation and I would also like to have that option if it's possible (as close as you possibly can get it), even if it seems a little weird and unusual to do, because I also think the opening narration is a reflection of those creative liberties they took with the story, so to not include them would be a little odd imo. And I also find it interesting when the studio cut out some of Lucas' bizarre humour in the American release, the Italian dubbers added their own. That alone is worthy of preservation. :)

We can of course have another english faithful subtitle track if that's something you want. That will be easily done.

Btw, I'm a Swedish guy.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

Author
Time

I've got a DVD with the original cut that probably someone around here made a long time ago, I downloaded it through a link from IMDb forum around 2005. I also have the original film in AVI, I'll check if the sutbitles match, otherwise I will ask you the avi file.

I will adapt from Italian to English then, at least in those parts that differ consistently. I agree with all that you said.

 

Ah Svenska! Then our watches should read the same time. Tack för allt

(that's the end of my knowledge of Swedish sorry! lol)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Ah, ok. You do have access to the original cut, then you have everything you'll need, great. :) Just forget about the timings in my srt file, they will not match the film, I will sync these up as soon as I get the files from SilverWook, I am looking forward to that with horror as I know sub syncing is a real bitch to do. ;) 

Yeah, we are in the same time zone, but I am actually more than often awake at nights due to working day and night-shifts. 

Just take your time erri_wan, no hurry. Grazie! :)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

Author
Time

I'll do my best.

To my advantage, I've subtitled (for my girlfriend) "Fantozzi 2", an Italian comedy film which didn't exist subtitled in English (while the first did)... that job was way harder than THX could ever be ;-)

Author
Time

Okay, I'm going to try having a chat channel tonight on the following little used IRC server:

Server: irc.scifi-fans.net

Ports 6660-6668,7000

Try joining the channel "OriginalTrilogy"

I use an old freeware program called mirc if you don't have IRC chat software of your own. (I've found browser based chat apps kind of klunky.) I'll try to be on most of the evening starting about 7:15 Pacific time, but I will be away from the keyboard at times. Good luck!

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

I won the original auction . The only other bidder didn't outgun me by very much. I suspect it was some bearded guy living on a ranch in Northern California. ;)

 

Close, I do not have a beard nor do I live on a ranch... but I do live in California.

I am sorry that I had a bidding war with you, I just now discovered this thread and realized that we were bidding on the same item for the same reasons.

I had planned to transfer the 16mm to a Bluray using a company that does transfers to HD, plus retouching if the film is damaged. Again, I had no idea there was a project already in the works; I would have saved you a few bucks had I known you were part of this preservation project.

Any ways, I am a huge fan of the film, have various material relating to it. I have the Japanese LD, a few of the previously mentioned VHS copies, 3 (varying conditions) of the mylar cop poster, 1 of the LUH mylar poster, the presskit, and lots of other smaller items.

Its great to see there is much enthusiasm in preserving the original cut, as I am a fan of that cut over the rest. I am always on the lookout for international versions of the film, or any differing version of the film for that matter. So hopefully I can assist somewhere down the line if I find anything now that I know where to go.

Author
Time

Welcome aboard, THX! An no worries about the auction. It didn't get into the crazy bid territory that Star Wars prints get into. I actually missed out on the auction the first time, and didn't expect any competition. At least it wasn't George. ;)

If the company you mention would actually transfer such a print "no questions asked", that might be a good asset to have around here.  I don't suppose they can do 35mm?

Just to keep everyone updated, I haven't been able to screen the print yet due to the rotten weather, and my own rotten health. Believe me, I'm itching to find out what version it is.

I did however find a place to get my long ago busted Pioneer CLD-D704 repaired for a lot less than I thought it would cost. (I was this close to taking it on a one way trip to the local electronics recycling center!) This player has some nice user adjustable video noise reduction options my other machines don't have, so I'll have a third option for LD transfer by next month.

And msycamore, I will get the discs mailed out to you after Christmas is over.

 

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Okay, I'm going to try having a chat channel tonight on the following little used IRC server

Sorry Silver, we've been hit with a snowstorm exactly on the 17th, took three days to get back to normal, and then of course Christmas duties took my time.

I hope you didn't wait up.

I guess we'll try again after the holidays, however, as for the time, you should try for the morning Silver, because 7 in the evening in your time zone is like 3am here in Europe. Anyway, isn't easier to use MSN messenger?

No news yet about the Italian tape, people must be in holiday

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Welcome, THX! Nice to have you aboard! I echo what SilverWook said, a company who would touch this, would be a great asset indeed. :)

SilverWook, sad to hear you're not feeling well, hope the weather and your health soon gets better. Nice to hear you got that player repaired. :)

erri_wan and SilverWook, personally I think this forum work just fine for the discussions and plans we may have, either by PM or in this thread, also people who then may observing this from a distance will see what's going on, like the guy who just popped in. :) I'm also too slow when it comes to typing anyway ;) so taking this in a chat or in messenger wouldn't be a good option, at least not for me, add to that the different time zones... but I understand the thought behind it.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

Author
Time

 

Hey guys,

Thanks for the welcoming! The company I was going to use: http://www.film2hd.com/

They have a copyright page that states the following:

Our Copyright

International copyright applies to the vast majority of DVDs we produce. See the bottom corner on the back of your DVD.

Unauthorized reproduction, copying, or rental of this recording in any form is strictly prohibited by law. All rights reserved. Made in Canada.”

Your Materials

If you wish us to transfer copyrighted material, only one copy can be made for preservation or backup purposes and you are required by law to be (and continue to be) the owner of the original media.

 

I'm not sure how you guys read that, but this is how I see it... If you have a DVD/Bluray produced by them, you are then obliged to follow their copyright. More importantly, if you own the THX-1138 16mm print, you are allowed to backup the film using their services for -KEYWORD- preservation. Of course contacting them to confirm this would be the first step. If you chose this route, I will help finance the means of preservation using this company or any other.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Ok msycamore perhaps you're right. Afterall I've only got one thing to do now, translate!

THX thanks for your help and welcome on board

Merry Christmas to all of you

Author
Time

The most important part of that message is this:

If you wish us to transfer copyrighted material, only one copy can be made for preservation or backup purposes and you are required by law to be (and continue to be) the owner of the original media.

That means, if they do it, and you're caught redistributing the ("one and only") copy, you (or they) could get in to trouble over it.

Author
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

The most important part of that message is this:

If you wish us to transfer copyrighted material, only one copy can be made for preservation or backup purposes and you are required by law to be (and continue to be) the owner of the original media.

That means, if they do it, and you're caught redistributing the ("one and only") copy, you (or they) could get in to trouble over it.

 

Yeah, lol, I purposely chose not to direct my thoughts on that segment as I assumed it didn't matter in our case. I figured there could be 'ways' around that given the fact we would be creating a fan-edit(preservation) of the film that is not officially available.

But I might be very wrong with that assumption, and what people here are pursuing is either clear of any copyright issues or I am completely missing the obvious.

Author
Time

 

I also forgot to mention that my sister's best friend now lives in Italy. I requested that she look for the Italian Laserdisc version of the film along with any other format besides the current DC version.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

THX11384EB said:

 

I also forgot to mention that my sister's best friend now lives in Italy. I requested that she look for the Italian Laserdisc version of the film along with any other format besides the current DC version.

Four eyes are better than two! But if anything appears on ebay please let me know so we don't bid on the same thing for the same purpose!

Tell her to look for the VHS too, laserdisc can be found only with a miracle here

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I'm working on the translation and, oh boy, never noticed all these alterations. Some segments have been cut (for example LUH asking permission for procreation [am I right, did I see that happening?], LUH standing in a corner and THX leaving the prayer boot after vomiting).

Dialogue is often slightly different (I guess you'll enjoy checking the differences). In some cases it even adds new info (invented I guess!) or give different meanings and interpretation. Minimal stuff of course (at the beginning when there's an overload and explosion, the voice counts 63 robot personnel destroyed, not caring of the humans I guess)... I am of course retranslating all these into English subs as per request! ;-) I'll keep you updated

Side note: to your advantage, I have marked clearly which parts are added and which are removed. However I am not coordinating the timing but simply replacing the lines where these appear on the original subtitled film. I don't have the program to do the synchronizing, I hope some of you guys is equipped for sub sync.

Author
Time

I don't recall LUH asking permission to have a baby in any version? The film implies having a baby the old fashioned way is as illegal as having sex in the first place.

My notes on the ITA cut are several pages back, if they are of any help.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

Sorry SilverWook, I checked and of course there is no birth request, I misunderstood because I was concentrating on the translation while the removed scene was on (removed from the Italian version),

About the removed parts, I can easily identify any cut because that's where the audio switches back to English. Good news is that the video the guy from youtube sent me is much better quality so I could understand also what was before unclear.

Best altered line encountered until now is the following:

-What is it?
-A shell dweller.
-They live in the outer shell.
We had two here before, we had to kill them.
You can't imagine the smell.

LOL in the Italian version the "inmates" killed two previous shell dwellers

Author
Time

I find funny that they had to change even the components of the robot THX is working on

Instead of "the TTO integrated logic modules" in Italian THX is inserting a "double conversion superheterodyne" (I had to sweat a bit to understand that word and translate it, ancient technology goes in those robots!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheterodyne_receiver

Author
Time

erri_wan said:

to your advantage, I have marked clearly which parts are added and which are removed. However I am not coordinating the timing but simply replacing the lines where these appear on the original subtitled film. I don't have the program to do the synchronizing, I hope some of you guys is equipped for sub sync.

That's perfect! don't worry about the timings, I'll get to that later on. Keep up the good job, erri_wan! :)

 

Should I perhaps retitle this thread?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

Author
Time

Yeah I think we should have two separate threads, one for American Graffiti and one for THX

Author
Time
 (Edited)

My God the mistakes I'm listening to! I'm almost done with the subtitling by the way. I'm 15 minutes to the end of the movie, then I'll check it all over and add here and there some time indication so you can easily check that you are subtitling the right stuff at the right time.

I never noticed that the film has also been re-edited moving some scenes around (THX trial is not right after his arrest and in the trial he's considered "curable" while in English they say he's incurable). I wonder that the hell did Warner have in mind.

The way some parts have been translated really make the film hard to understand while in English it's all pretty clear... anyway you'll see for yourself soon enough.

There were a couple of things I didn't translate from Italian because they clearly were mistakes.
When THX is looking for LUH on the computer, a voice says that LUH has been destroyed and regenerated (whatever that means) with the new name of FOETUS, they thought foetus was her new name??? In English of course it says that LUH has been "consumed" and name "reassigned" to a foetus.

I'm leaving it as it is in English because I'm not keeping this kind of sh*t, pardon my French lol

Author
Time

Almost done! you're fast!

Yeah, that reordering of scenes doesn't make any sense in this cut, and it couldn't have making any sense for the Italian dubbers either, if they even cared. I guess it wasn't the localization A-team who worked on this one... THX must've been a very confusing experience for the Italian audience. :)

Interesting finds, thanks again for doing this!

 

THX11384EB, have you checked how that Japanese laserdisc of yours compares to the US one in picture quality? I'm interested to hear a second thought on which of them that would be the best choice to capture, or if a combination of the two is really the best option. Maybe you only own the Japanese LD?

Hope that 16mm print of yours is in good shape, Silver. I cross my fingers.

Happy new year everyone!

 

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com