Why do so many people around here feel that these movies are too centered? Zooming in and tilting the frame does not add anything. Our eyes have been drawn to the right area for years, we don't need what I consider to be "music video" effects to be "modern". What's next, shaky-cam effects and random slow motion?
Kersh knew what he was doing. Ady knows what he is doing, which is respecting Kersh's compositions.
Star Wars Revisited Wordpress
Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress
doubleofive said:
Why do so many people around here feel that these movies are too centered? Zooming in and tilting the frame does not add anything. Our eyes have been drawn to the right area for years, we don't need what I consider to be "music video" effects to be "modern". What's next, shaky-cam effects and random slow motion?
Kersh knew what he was doing. Ady knows what he is doing, which is respecting Kersh's compositions.
^ This ^
Years and more years yes 005. If ady wants to bring the movies to our standards then every possible option is available. Remember not only Star wars fans are watching these edits.
Make a shot from good to better and from better to best. Eveything nowadays has to prevized before the final product. So they calculate everything to the best possible result rather something simple.
Other days the 80s other days the 00s. If you take the path of balancing the two eras then you will face the path of OTizing and PTizing to many levels and areas. ;)
This forum is multi-aged, why not suggest more modern things?
-Angel
doubleofive said:
Why do so many people around here feel that these movies are too centered? Zooming in and tilting the frame does not add anything. Our eyes have been drawn to the right area for years, we don't need what I consider to be "music video" effects to be "modern". What's next, shaky-cam effects and random slow motion?
Kersh knew what he was doing. Ady knows what he is doing, which is respecting Kersh's compositions.
It's because some of the people here making suggestions, never grew up watching these in the 70' and 80's and are so use to the in your face and moving around formula that Michael Bay and all of the other dip-shit directors use....
Ady is mainly concerned with the really obvious technical problems, and the continuity with the story, and visual elements. I highly doubt Ady is going to zoom in or tilt on any shot, just to make a scene look cool, or up to date.
Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights
!!!Back off! :P This is personal! :P Nobody's touches Michael Bay! XD!!!
-Angel
Michael bay was a music video director, and he stole my childhood...lol....
Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights
doubleofive said:
Why do so many people around here feel that these movies are too centered? Zooming in and tilting the frame does not add anything. Our eyes have been drawn to the right area for years, we don't need what I consider to be "music video" effects to be "modern". What's next, shaky-cam effects and random slow motion?
Kersh knew what he was doing. Ady knows what he is doing, which is respecting Kersh's compositions.
I don't usually like doing this, but...
Quoted For Truth.
doubleofive said:
Why do so many people around here feel that these movies are too centered? Zooming in and tilting the frame does not add anything. Our eyes have been drawn to the right area for years, we don't need what I consider to be "music video" effects to be "modern". What's next, shaky-cam effects and random slow motion?
Kersh knew what he was doing. Ady knows what he is doing, which is respecting Kersh's compositions.
The 60's Batman TV show would like a word with you. ;-)
Excellent post, 005. Although I can't wait to see all the lens flares adywan is adding.*
AuggieBenDoggie said:
Michael bay was a music video director, and he stole my childhood...lol....
Meat Loaf. I don't recall anything else he did?
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
New clip looks great....
It's all gone mad in here.:) All this talk of re-framing and zooming shots to make them "more interesting" is madness and plain pointless.
vaderios said:
Make a shot from good to better and from better to best. Eveything nowadays has to prevized before the final product. So they calculate everything to the best possible result rather something simple.
And that's why most modern movies are crap. Just overblown music videos. You say that the OT cinematography is boring and needs to have all these weird re-framings etc to make it more like modern day film making, well no thank you. I find it pretty strange that you want to change all this to make the movies more interesting yet you are a huge Michael Bay fan? This is the guy who uses the same cinematography in EVERY MOVIE HE MAKES. He uses identical slow motion shots, slow pans, zooms etc every god damn movie. This is shit film making at it's finest. yes, some of his films can be entertaining upon first viewing but they are throw away films and i get so bored of using the same filming format over and over again. Give me the old '80's camerawork any day over this modern crap. You over-think something and it can turn into a turd. Sometimes the simplest option is the best.
And this is why i could never work with you on any of my edits and why 99% of your mockups i would never even consider, Vaderios. We have a totally different mind set. I'm also quite surprised at just how defensive you get if someone says they don't like one of your mock-ups.I think it's very disrespectful saying someone else's work is "crap" just because it wasn't done with today's technology. The matte work on the Star wars films was very good . It looked great and very convincing in the cinema first time around. the problem is that some have gotten use to the computer done mattes of today and forget that back then everything had to be painted by hand, with a brush and not on a computer.
AuggieBenDoggie said:
I really hope notoriety is not the real motive behind your ideas.
And this is what is resulting in your defensiveness. I can say that he isn't the only one who mentioned this, although he is the only one that's spoken out in the forum. I've had a LOT of people contacting me about the same thing. Now this probably isn't your true reason for being here but i thought i would just point out what is being said because of how you sometimes come across. It may well be down to the language barrier how you come across at times and i really hope it is.
I have been asked quite a lot as to the reasoning why reason why i am not working with you on Revisited and why i wouldn't give you a copy of the workprint. Also people have pretty much tried to tell me that it's down to artist jealousy. Well that isn't the case at all. I really do think you are a talented person but we're working from two completely different ideals. It would just never work on a professional level. But the main reason i won't is due to other matters, which i was never going to speak about, but with so many emailing or PMing me accusing me of being pig headed, jealous and other stuff, i think i need to set the record straight. It is because of the underhanded things you have done behind the scenes. I really do not appreciate someone who tries to trade clips or his work in order to get the exclusive clips etc i have posted in the past for donators (and this isn't just hear say because i have been sent your correspondence). I have kept quiet about this for a long time but too many people now have been contacting me telling me that i should give you a copy of the workprint, so i needed to explain why i wouldn't. I'm sorry, but i just couldn't trust you. I need to be able to work with people that i can trust completely not to let things slip out. You also seem unwilling to help anyone when asked. So many times have i seen people ask how you have done things, and this includes me asking you also. You just give a sarcastic or cryptic reply but not once have you given a proper reply. IF you are indeed here to help out with the project then why do you keep your methods so secret? It could really help others with their edits. This is another reason why people are starting to feel that you were just here for notoriety only.
Now i really need to catch up with all the comments made since the clip was posted before this thread got bogged down with the dagobah matte.
This is what happens when two very creative people with integrity clash.
I do feel that Vaderios is being spoken to a bit harsh here Adywan, I think these boards would be at a loss without him.
All of his views and suggestions are purely from an artistic stance.
J
NB: This reply applied to post 21311 before it was edited
Jaitea said:
This is what happens when two very creative people with integrity clash.
I do feel that Vaderios is being spoken to a bit harsh here Adywan, I think these boards would be at a loss without him.
All of his views and suggestions are purely from an artistic stance.
J
I haven't spoeken to him harshly and it certainly wasn't meant to come across that way. And i didn't say anything about him not being or not wanting him on these boards either. I think you have read something into my comments that weren't there
There seems to be quite a few people bashing him in the past couple of pages, if that were happening to me I wouldn't feel to comfortable here.......
J
There has been no bashing going on towards him at all. If you think that peoples replies have been "bashing" then this would mean that he has been bashing people too then wouldn't it with some of the things he has said towards people who haven't agreed with him? I'm pretty sure that Angel is big enough to take some criticism or do you think that everyone should be worshipping him?
I am not getting into a debate Adywan.
J
Molly said:
Meat Loaf. I don't recall anything else he did?
To be fair on the old guy he drew a line under doing 'that' for love and you have to respect him for it, oh and Bay did the video for I Touch Myself for which he deserves some sort of sainthood.
As for the re-framing business if someone can back up their suggestion with hard evidence I can't see why anything should be out of bounds in terms of suggestions.
As the creator of this project it's Ady's call what goes in it but when someone says to me something like, "You should go stick your head in a pig" I want to see a demonstration of that idea from the originator of the proposal, backed up with a doctor's report.
If the head in the pig idea is fine for both parties I might give it a go, once (but I won't do 'that' for love).
To some by even thinking about doing this project Ady has already blasphemed so if someone can prove that re-framing some of these shots can improve them and improving the SE is the goal of the project, it seems churlish to not even consider it but at this late stage it also seems a bit daft to be making all these potentially work undoing suggestions now.
There were plenty of quiet moments earlier in this thread when Ady hadn't got so much done yet and nobody (to my increasingly fallible memory) was suggesting anything about re-framing the shots (of this film) then.
If you did manage to talk him into it how much hard graft would be snipped off the sides now which wouldn't have been if it had been suggested earlier?
Ady has already given us a beautiful version of the film that maintains Kersh's decisions and presents them in a much better way than the official release.
This is a different project, it is the SE, made extra special with Adywan's choices, some of which may have come from suggestions on this thread.
Re-framing a shot for a genuinely perceived improvement of quality is no more disrespectful to Kersh in this project than replacing a matte entirely for the sake of continuity.
Calling a matte painting crap is an opinion, you may find yourself agreeing with or may not find yourself agreeing with.
The swamp matte in question is probably better than anything I can do and it didn't stick out like a sore thumb on my first viewing back in 1980 but I was ten and it was my first viewing and now I can see it doesn't fit the shot very well because I am old and I've seen the film lots of times.
It's up to Ady what he wants to do with it but lets applaud creative suggestions even if they aren't used by Ady.
The Revisited series will probably not be the last incarnation of the SE.
An idea not suited for Ady may find new life in a new project.
:: Image only post removed. Read guidelines here.
Warning given.
"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas
<span> </span>
Well... this seems to be disintegrating into a furball. ^^ And I'm not the cause for once... =D Although I think I'll add to it for the fun of it knowing most likely I'll be banned... but what the heck, it'll save Ady some sanity I hope.
As such, I'm gonna throw this out there cos this is really what I think as I've heard lots about this in general. I overall have no interest in what anyone here thinks of me or care to interfere... and this is how I roll overall. It's a message board... ooo... I'm really shaking now concerning opinions...
I am, however, Ady's friend... and so as such...
Vaderios, stop asking for/suggesting Lucas-level unnecessary additions that add nothing to story or the integrity of these classic movies. The bulk of your suggestions/renders feed your own need for the spotlight here otherwise you would of taken your over colored, overly brighten, overly sharpened, overly rendered mock ups and made YOUR OWN group to post on.
In fact, I highly suggest it as you seem to have a small following of your own and all, then maybe you can make YOUR OWN edit. If you're SO good then it should be easy for such a talent as yourself to create your own revisited rather than latch on to the coat tails of Adywan here. That's sounds good to me... Vaderio's Revisited. Good luck with that...
More over, if you continue your actions here as mere "suggestions" and are butting heads with Ady... More or less, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, this is a hint eh? Sure your pictures are shiny/colorfully pretty just like any one picture can be looking nice with enough time and dedication... but I've yet to see them move from you. I think that's kinda key to any film really... The whole making them move thing... So for all you guys "ohhhhing" and "ahhhhing" over an amazing Vaderios mock up... perhaps all of you should also consider the technical ramifications of making such ideas work in MOVEMENT and the over all cost of these things in general to make them MOVE.
Oh wait... only a few of us do... cos Ady pays for the bulk of this on his own (as well as generous donations from fans who want to see a better Star Wars for us all) to improve or enhance things without going Lucas-level uber (or Vaderios-level uber) but he does it so tactfully the bulk of us barely notice. Therefore you're like, oh it's so clear but it looks like Ady didn't do much. Think again people... There is always a cost to make these MOVING effects even if it's just "clearer" and such while making it look amazing and more over... FREE for the bulk of us.
I've also noticed on several occasions that Ady would ask how you did something or how something in your mock up was achieved. I'd personally consider it the height of collaboration with Adywan if he asked me to "open the help files" to improve something we all love. However, you tend to give vague cheeky answers and more or less hint at a trade of information and the like. Perhaps a exclusive clip... Perhaps an exclusive picture... doesn't matter, as long as it's something no one else has seen. My guess, it's an ego thing, it caters to your need to feel special to have something no one else has or can see. As is the bulk of your mock ups... ohhh.... ahhhh...
Regardless, since Ady is hesitant to release such information to you (because if you're bold enough to offer a "trade" concerning information/clip, who knows what you'd trade this for with others eh?Duh...). Your only recourse now cos you're NOT getting anything is to undermine Ady's work when ever you can without opening saying what you want is credit that is not rightfully yours. This is blatantly apparent.
Now, obviously I don't post here usually cos really... I've seen and dealt with too many things like this in other groups. However, for Ady's continuation of this project without you for the next 5 films would be a blessing and I think a lil exercising of cancer is in order before it metastasis further...
Take a good look at the title of this group.
"STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"**ADYWAN**
No where does it say Vaderios... if you're as good as your think you are then start your own revisited and leave Ady in peace. Your suggestions are impractical to with what Ady has in mind and more over unaccepted. Get the hint...
Bye all! Happy holidays! ^^
The impossible is what Rogues do best...
Ming I don't think that post is helpful, in fact it's very snotty.
Saying that of Angel is like saying all the work you have been doing for Ady is just to get your face on a Star Wars film.
Palpable nonsense.
You are trying to help in your way and he is trying to help in his way.
Just because something is posted here it doesn't mean Ady has to do it.
He can just say thanks but no and that the end of it.
I applaud the work you put in but I applaud the work Angel does.
I applaud the work Ady does and the fact that thanks to Jay we can all gather here and share it and the work of loads of creative people on these boards even if their soul goal is to make us laugh.
Once in a while we all do something that's rather good and people pat us on the back and Angel is entitled to a pat on the back now and then as Ady is and as you are but proportional to the rather goodness of the once in a while things we do.
Bingowings said:
Ming I don't think that post is helpful, in fact it's very snotty.
Saying that of Angel is like saying all the work you have been doing for Ady is just to get your face on a Star Wars film.
Palpable nonsense.
You are trying to help in your way and he is trying to help in his way.
Just because something is posted here it doesn't mean Ady has to do it.
He can just say thanks but no and that the end of it.
I applaud the work you put in but I applaud the work Angel does.
I applaud the work Ady does and the fact that thanks to Jay we can all gather here and share it and the work of loads of creative people on these boards even if their soul goal is to make us laugh.
Mmm... snotty... yeah sure. Do I care? lol... not in the least. I have my own reasons for doing this. Overall, there's information and such folks have not been privy to. Therefore of course it sounds like non-sense to you but it makes perfect sense to someone here... Starts with a V... I'll let you guess who.
The impossible is what Rogues do best...
Gossip is utterly boring and not at all creative if you have any real evidence of any of us doing something awful start an off topic thread and mercilessly take the perps down a peg Ming (we like a laugh on the off topic section).
Off topic bitter satire based on hard evidence is the best way to tackle any genuine naughty behaviour in my experience.
The truth is out there, everyone get's a laugh and let's off steam, the air is as cleared as it can be and people move on.
This is a project specific thread (with a few giggles around the edges).
From the evidence of my eyes from reading this thread people who contribute here do so because they want Ady to succeed and until I see proof otherwise I assume Angel to be the same. I always assume people are telling the truth until proved otherwise, it's led to some painful and costly events in my life but it's on the whole been not a bad rule of thumb.
Saying Angel has got a following because some people like some of his mockups is daft.
Some people like my puerile visual gags but that does constitute a 'following' and I always encourage people who post ideas not to Ady's taste to put them into one of the ideas threads so someone else might use them and other editors have taken some of Angel's mockups as inspiration for possible use in their work and they move too.
I don't like all of his mockups and clearly not all of them would work with this project but I defend people who try to make a contribution financially, intellectually or artistically.
I've stood up for people like fishmanlee and Janskeet from time to time (even though I frequently disagreed with some of their activities and many of their ideas).
You never know where an amazing idea or possibility will come from and if people are willing to donate their effort and time free of charge that should be encouraged and gratefully received or politely refused.
I don't think any of the ideas I put on this thread will manifest as moments in Ady's edit but I hope I have been helpful and that's the best any of us can do.
Well my calumnious companions, I shan't take any sides, but what I will say is: TAKE THIS BICKERING TO OFF TOPIC!!!!
All in all, the worst we can do is start a pissing contest. It calls for no growth or progress at all. I don't care who does what, and how much or how little each member contributes. A contribution to the fan-editing world, good or bad, is a contribution nonetheless. I respect contributions, being somebody who has lots of plans without results.
I respect you all, don't loose that respect over something so petty.
"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas
<span> </span>
I love water melons!!!
And besides, it's not like Adyman takes any notice of what anyone says..I mean, grain of sand - Still there...Snowflake, probably still gonna be there...
I try and try, but to no avail!!
"Tis the season to be jolly....."
vaderios said:
Also its me or its the same shot that were used in the both sequences? if yes ( you can see in the overlay image) shouldnt be different one from the other? its more foggy too!
If tho you can consider to do some changes to the second establishing shot (yes even its for 4 seconds) i would like have it a bit zoomed out so the Xwing have more path to travel to the ground.
vaderios, although I started to draft this yesterday after seeing your comparison shots, I've only had a chance to finish this post off today. I'm a bit late to the party now it seems, but here's how I see this -
While the backgrounds in these 2 X-wing shots may be very similar (although not identical), I reckon they both still work pretty well overall. Thing is, the level of the background in the 2nd shot is positioned lower down than in the 1st shot...giving the (proper) impression that the X-wing has travelled nearer to the shore during the cutaway to Yoda, having passed over the 'watery' area we see in the 1st shot...and this is why we (correctly) see only the 'foggy' area in the 2nd shot...
However, I reckon there's a questionmark to do with how far away the X-wing's starting position seems to be from Yoda's, Luke's, and R2's position here, compared to how close it seemed to be to them in some previous shots... Depite this, the overall effect remains magical, of course. :)
Anyway, I just wanted to add that I remember really liking this particular mockup below of yours at the time...even though I'd like see a slightly 'gloomier' look to it overall, to match the look of the original a little better. (I think I'm right in thinking you grabbed a portion of the background 'set' from the shot where Yoda beckons back to Luke to follow him) -
I liked the extra 'reality' that the existing 'set' elements you used gave to the shot over the original painted matte. But even if adywan only gives it a slight enhancement eventually, I've no doubt that his version will look better than than the current SE shot. His recolouration alone will improve it, if nothing else.
adywan, good to see that you gave everyone an early christmas present of the Dagobah/Shuttle clip, as I was keen to see how you ended up finishing off that sequence, compared to the incomplete 'workprint'. The subtlety of your Yoda blinks is wonderful throughout, and now that I can see something else you've cleverly managed to do...it's thrown up a couple of issues I'd like to go into before too long. Since you've shown your current intentions, I'll finally get around to finishing off that humongous 'Dagobah' post which I've been meaning to get around to since ages. :) Some 'Dagobah' scenes are a continuity nightmare, and it won't be pretty...but although certain things will have to remain a compromise, I'm going to be interested to get your take on certain aspects of it all. (Before I get around to that though, I'm hoping to finish off a post concerning a few outstanding things I'm curious about, to do with the 'Medical Frigate' sequence which come before your now perfect Falcon trajectory scene)
But until then, here's a little something that I'd also like to hightlight. It's just a brief thing, but it's certainly something that always catches my eye now. It concerns the shots where Han enters the rebel hangar and dismounts -
At the end of the top shot, as shown here, there is a Snowspeeder situated beside the 'ice pillar' behind Han and his Taun-Taun...
...but when we then immediately cut to Han dismounting in close-up, we suddenly see the rear engines of an X-wing appear beside the pillar...
Is it possible for you to 'erase' the engines in the close-up of Han, so that we'd only see the 'ice pillar' here, so that this isn't such a jarring continuity error any more? See what you think.
Here's a large version of the top shot for a clearer look at what I mean - http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8/screenshot637.png