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Artoo-Detoo! It is you! IT IS YOU!

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OK, looking for a little reconnaissance info here.  A friend told me to record this show on HD Theater about hot rods because he noticed something familiar in it.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5244628345_238cce7a50_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5250/5244628647_a6b114668b_b.jpg

In the show, they were talking about a SEMA show that took place in the 1960's. SEMA's web site has pics from a show in 1967 that has all the other pics from this TV show in it except for this one. Judging from the clothing and hair styles, these pics above look like they're from the early 70's.

Logically, considering the timeline, Lucas went to one of these SEMA shows (it's a known fact that he was into car racing before becoming a film maker) and saw this thing on the show floor. He then probably took pictures of it, made sketches or even got in touch with whoever built it and ultimately used it as the basis for R2.

Anyone got any more info on this? Anyone know exactly when & where it's from or who would know more about it?

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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If this is true, then the early McQuarrie concept art and sketches should be a close match to the above SEMA photos.

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Ah, so this could have been post-SW release?  Never thought of that but again, considering the clothing and hair styles, it does look 70's rather than the 60's context the TV show placed it in.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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SilverWook said:

Lucas has been known to borrow from things...

He has indeed;

http://moongadget.com/origins/index.html

That said;  I've never made any secret of the fact that I doubt nearly every word he speaks and generally think of him as a dishonest person - at least with regard to his Original Vision Bullshit Story.  However, I don't think he would blatantly copy something that closely and then claim it as his own.  Conveniently leave it out of any discussions and hope no one ever noticed? - you bet.  Steal and change the paint job? - no.

My take is post-Star Wars on those pictures. The clothing is correct for my high school years.  (shut up)  ;-)

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Which "American Icon - The Hot Rod" episode is this from?

http://dhd.discovery.com/tv-schedules/series.html?paid=66.12861.130015.39813.5

 

Another thing to compare are the backgrounds from these pics with the others from 1967 which are online.  One of the false-positives with clothes is sometimes the people wearing them are 'out of fashion' by 5-10 years.  which I would expect from a car show.

 

Here's some pics from SEMA shows, they look more bare bones.

http://www.hotrodhotline.com/feature/2008show/08semanewprod/

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It was just on a few hours ago, 5PM Eastern time, so I guess that would be "Through a Windshield Darkly"

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

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Anchorhead said:

SilverWook said:

Lucas has been known to borrow from things...

He has indeed;

http://moongadget.com/origins/index.html

That said;  I've never made any secret of the fact that I doubt nearly every word he speaks and generally think of him as a dishonest person - at least with regard to his Original Vision Bullshit Story.  However, I don't think he would blatantly copy something that closely and then claim it as his own.  Conveniently leave it out of any discussions and hope no one ever noticed? - you bet.  Steal and change the paint job? - no.

My take is post-Star Wars on those pictures. The clothing is correct for my high school years.  (shut up)  ;-)

 What about the Imperial Walkers he stole, I think from Syd Mead? Or C3P0 being straight out of Metropolis? I'd say its well within the realm of possibility and pretty consistent with the style of Star Wars, which is entirely assembled out of borrowed pieces, which is part of what made it so clever. Some of them are cultural and meant to be apparent to the audience to engage their own knowledge of cinema and pop culture(Chewbacca=Cowardly Lion, Han Solo=John Wayne, C3P0=Metropolis robot, trench run=Dam Busters), but some of them are obscure and not obvious (droids=Hidden Fortress duo, Chewbacca="Analogue" mag design, Darth Vader=The Lightning from Fighting Devil Dogs serial, Bespin=Flash Gordon base), many of which are never admitted by Lucas (he may have even forgotten).

So, I'd say it's legit. It may turn out not to be, but if you are going to judge it based on his past actions then the only logical conclusion is that he deliberately borrowed it ("stole" seems a harsh word; if you are going to judge it as theivery, then you ought to write off the entire film in virtually every aspect, element, character, design and story point).

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You should have seen the angry letters Cinefantastique magazine got late in 1977, accusing Lucas of ripping off everything from Lensman to Dune. Some also questioned what happened to that promising young man who made THX-1138. ;)

I could have sworn I read somewhere the robots in Silent Running were an influence on Artoo. He was originally going to walk in a fashion similar to a man walking on crutches, hence the third leg.

Where were you in '77?

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zombie84 said:

 What about the Imperial Walkers he stole, I think from Syd Mead? Or C3P0 being straight out of Metropolis? I'd say its well within the realm of possibility and pretty consistent with the style of Star Wars, which is entirely assembled out of borrowed pieces, which is part of what made it so clever.

True.  There is no denying he's copied other people's work. The link I posted has some excellent examples.  If I'm wrong about the R2 copy, not only will I have even less respect for Lucas than I do now (if that's even possible), I'll make a point of making sure the picture and story are widely distributed.

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none said:

.... sometimes the people wearing them are 'out of fashion' by 5-10 years.  which I would expect from a car show.

?

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Anchorhead wrote:

There is no denying he's copied other people's work.

From early on, Star Wars was framed as the retelling/reinterpreting of culture.  Some of the Official early books each introduced how aspects were lifted from old sources for instance the cantina aliens were sprung from the movie 'Freaks', the no legged guy being a partial inspiration for R2.

What was probably an awakening for culture and society was here was someone freely opening up about their inspirations instead of keeping it hidden behind the mystical 'artist' facade.  And early on they continued that spirit through the making of special effect shows.

I wonder though how much of this was this done to counter lawsuits like the above mentioned 'Silent Running'.  Did they scramble to find additional references and get them into print to counter other people who drew corrolations between their work and this new movie.  Probably not much, but it creeps back into mind every time there is one of those droid-motorola suits.

 

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Anchorhead wrote:

which I would expect from a car show.

What percentage of late 1960's or late 70's car show ethusiasts were also going to Studio 54 or hanging out in the fashionista scene of London/Paris/NewYork?

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I dunno, that design is very, very close to the astromechs seen in the films; closer, as someone noticed, than are McQuarrie's early designs.  Which suggests to me that the picture is of a copy of the droids from SW, not the other way around.  Because the design evolution generally 'arrives' at the final design, not start with it, then change to something else, then go back to the original.  I could be wrong but it seems much simpler that way.  Especially since we don't know when exactly this picture was from.

"Star Wars films are basically silent movies. And they're designed as silent movies, therefore the music carries a -- has a very large role in carrying the story, more than it would in a normal movie."  -GL

"NOO! NOOOOOO!!" - Darth Vader

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Anchorhead said:

SilverWook said:

Lucas has been known to borrow from things...

He has indeed;

http://moongadget.com/origins/index.html

That said;  I've never made any secret of the fact that I doubt nearly every word he speaks and generally think of him as a dishonest person - at least with regard to his Original Vision Bullshit Story.  However, I don't think he would blatantly copy something that closely and then claim it as his own. 

Anch, not that I disagree that Lucas is a borrower of ideas most freely, but that article is weak-sauce.

Author tries WAY to hard to to fit SW into Campbell's model, but even worse is his attempt to fit Lucas's life into Campbells' model.

OBI-WAN=Joseph Campbell!??!HAN SOLO=Coppolla??!?!

The Lucas/Campbell connection happened well after Lucas's mega-success. It's popularity is just another one of Lucas's myth-spinning stories, right up there with his Original Vision Bullshit Story.

 

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TheBoost said:

 

Author tries WAY to hard to to fit SW into Campbell's model, but even worse is his attempt to fit Lucas's life into Campbells' model.

OBI-WAN=Joseph Campbell!??!HAN SOLO=Coppolla??!?!

The Lucas/Campbell connection happened well after Lucas's mega-success. It's popularity is just another one of Lucas's myth-spinning stories, right up there with his Original Vision Bullshit Story.

 

I agree fully about the text portion of the site.  I've always found the borrows from other films to be the most interesting & telling of how Lucas really crafted Star Wars.  Actually, crafted is too strong a word. ;-)

In fact, it's been a long time since I actually read the text of the site.  I'd forgotten how out there it was.  Out there and - I think - just plain wrong. Lucas isn't nearly as deep as the author wants to make him out to be. Star Wars worked because of it's simple story and the fine-tuning by Marcia and Kurtz, not some Campbell-esque depth.

Thanks for the reminder, by the way.  I need to remember to put that caveat in whenever I link to it.

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