Complete Comparison of Special Edition Visual Changes — Page 7

zombie84 said:

I'm curious to see what the 16mm reels look like. They are taken from the 70mm version, no?

Yes, it would be very interesting, I think he said it was the 35mm cut of the film but it would be interesting nevertheless. I really hope Puggo ends up doing a transfer of it, love his Grande. On Puggos super-8 which have a 70mm Emperor hologram, it is very hard to see due to bad quality, but I think I'll take a look again...

Here's what I noticed in taking my shots:



The GOUT version of this shot looks like it still has the horizontal line pattern shown on the JCS. The SE seems to have the dots.



These shots are the same.



This shot has a new background for the wall and the viewscreen camera has been shifted to the left. I believe this is because they had to create a new composite to use in order to recreate the wipe that ends the scene.

None of this explains the horizontal line to dot change.

(The shots are 43-45 of the ESB change now)

One thing i noticed while doing ESB:R is that the new composite is actually worse than the old one in the bottom shot. The viewscreen surrounding is now transparent and you can see Piette's body through it

adywan said:

One thing i noticed while doing ESB:R is that the new composite is actually worse than the old one in the bottom shot. The viewscreen surrounding is now transparent and you can see Piette's body through it

FYI, pittrek is getting me the video from the 97 version this weekend, but I'm not going to redo the entire comparsion, just enhancing the 97/04 changes.

Also, about that shot, its strange that the GOUT has the "dots" the same as the SE.

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

One thing i noticed while doing ESB:R is that the new composite is actually worse than the old one in the bottom shot. The viewscreen surrounding is now transparent and you can see Piette's body through it

Now that's funny! I know its not on topic here, but its my thread so I'll ask: What is the plan for these shots in ESBR?

I have to admit i'm not a fan of the "dots". It just doesn't look right, but there is no way to get rid of these without having to use a source with a lot less quality, which wouldn't look good in 720p. I want to do something that makes it look more like a video screen and the dots just don't do it.

adywan said:

The viewscreen surrounding is now transparent and you can see Piette's body through it

Damn you're right, I didn't notice that, there's also a horrible matteline around the screen in the SE. (but maybe that one is more visible because the viewscreen is much brighter)

I checked Puggos 8mm preservation which only includes the Vader-hologram in the AT-AT cockpit and the Emperor-hologram which is supposed to be the true 70mm version, but both seems to lack scanlines, the picture quality could be the reason as it has very blown out whites. Also, both the JSC and the GOUT Emperor-hologram couldn't possibly be using 70mm elements as that hologram doesn't slowly tune in when Vader appear before him.

zombie84 said:

Those definitely match the GOUT. There is some distortion and scanlining because the way they filmed the holograms was by playing them on a CRT monitor and re-photographing them. So there is some very, very mild scanline-like things burnt into the image just because of the way they were created. You can't really see it in still images but in motion you can see a bit of that "television distortion" that looks like scanlines. This is what the GOUT has and this is also what is pretty clearly on display in the 8mm caps above.

Amazing to find all these little details! I'm very surprised how much more there is to uncover in these films.

Yes, the Emperor hologram does match the GOUT but not the Vader one which has very clearly defined scanlines in both the JSC & GOUT which you can see on the pic I posted on the previous page.

Could you elaborate on this, zombie? I don't think I understand exactly what you mean here. I understand the process behind the effect but why are the scanlines only present on some transfers if it isn't differently done composites? or are you talking about the rolling bars?

pittrek has uploaded GKAR's copy of ANH97 for me. Works well, watched the "original" version of the Jabba scene for the first time in years. Wow, its so awful.

Comparison pic 173 of Star Wars: the original film freezes the footage of our heroes just before it dissolves to the end credits, in the SE it continues on showing us a few frames of unseen footage. ;) I really think you should include the altered end credits as they are also part of the films, interesting or not.

msycamore said:

Comparison pic 173 of Star Wars: the original film freezes the footage of our heroes just before it dissolves to the end credits, in the SE it continues on showing us a few frames of unseen footage. ;) I really think you should include the altered end credits as they are also part of the films, interesting or not.

doubleofive said:

I'll add what they have in the official listing.

Yeah, I'll think that will be good enough for the credits. I'm actually quite amazed how many alterations we have found that wasn't listed officially, but I guess that going through these films in the way we have done aren't really healthy. ;)

msycamore said:

doubleofive said:

I'll add what they have in the official listing.

Yeah, I'll think that will be good enough for the credits. I'm actually quite amazed how many alterations we have found that wasn't listed officially, but I guess that going through these films in the way we have done aren't really healthy. ;)

doubleofive said:

My wife has been asking me, "what are you doing", and I just say "stuff for the board" because I don't want to nerd her out.

 

 :)

msycamore said:

doubleofive said:

My wife has been asking me, "what are you doing", and I just say "stuff for the board" because I don't want to nerd her out.

:)

005, i've found a few shots that you have missed in ESB: (just right click>view image to see full size)

1 & 2. Recomposited and slight change in position of cockpit foreground

3. Recomposited and background now 1 frame later than original

4. Recomposited and background position shifted

5. Completely different background

I was hoping you'd come up with stuff like this. Thanks a ton!

zombie84 said:

What I meant was that even on the GOUT (and 8mm) images that have "no scanlines" if you look closely you can see there sort of is, because its on the monitor itself that is being photographed. I guess they wanted this to be much more obvious so they threw giant scanlines on top of this raw image.

 

 Ah... ok, now I understand what you meant, thanks for explaining.

zombie84 said:

What's weird is how the GOUT seems to have 3 stages of holograms:

-Clean holograms, without artificial scanlines.

-Holograms with verticle scanlines, which doesn't really make sense. They were corrected to be horizontal in the final version, so maybe these can be thought of "test composites" or "first tries".

-Holograms with proper horizontal scanlines, as per the final versions.

So it seems to have all three stages of completedness in one single print! You have ones that haven't had any added, ones that have had them added in a way that isn't final, and ones that are totally finished.

My question is: just what is this print? As if the source of the GOUT needed any more mystery. Its clearly something abnormal. I kind of wonder now if the grain levels are related in any way.

Yeah, it's really weird. Couldn't the '93 video master of Empire been sourced from several different print reels? Maybe it's 70mm/35mm differences or a combination of the two.

So we don't know where the 1993 print came from? Could it be a rough draft print that Lucas had sitting around? I think I'm going to change the description of my comparison to "1993/1997/2004" since I'm now doubtful that the original print had some of these changes that we found.

And I thought my brain hurt before. This is becoming less "Special Edition changes" and more "where did they find that copy of ESB in 1993?"

BTW, can anyone break down what they think I should add to the listing RE holograms. Which shots, which versions I should stack up, etc.

Yes, of course, how stupid I am! don't know what I was thinking. ;) we basically have the Emperor hologram in three different shapes this makes the whole thing much more complicated than just 70mm/35mm differences, I do know that the Emperor hologram have those same scanlines in the '97 SE.