logo Sign In

STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 822

Author
Time

Monroville said:

adywan said:

Bravo Zulu said:

Adywan,

Will you be doing anything with the AT-AT stop-motion to make it look not-so "stop motion"?

 

no. The stop motion of the AT-AT's has always worked perfectly for me. It gives them a more mechanical feel. The versions we see in the PT just look so fake and too fluid

Will you be adding any sort of subtle "bass" sound FX to the footfalls (especially in the mid shots and close shots)?  Also, I think what Bravo may be referring to is the "jerkiness" of most stop-motion effects.  I can understand keeping the stated "foot hits down, stays for a moment, then picks up again" as opposed to something too fluid for a machine (especially one that weighs a few 100 tons), but will you slightly tweak them in the case of the stop-motion being a bit jerky in the mid movements of the models? 

Even in the case of something lumbering, taking specific steps (such as the foot hitting the ground and then waiting a beat before the foot picks up again, to emphasize the weight of the object), there is going to be some motion blur.  It has been a while since I've seen the AT-AT attack scene, so I can't say if it is real noticeable.

I guess it is akin to the Space Slug scene; nothing major but even a slight bit of tweaking may improve the effectiveness of a scene.

Yes, what Monroville said!

"Darth Vader... tall and threatening in his black helmet, flowing black cape, and a face, forever masked, by a foreboding metal breath screen...

Darth Vader... a figure, who moves forever in a cloud of awesome evil!"

Author
Time

Now I have to watch the AT-AT attack scene again, to see how effective the GO-motion camera was during the sequences.  Even so, I remember some scenes (like one where the multi-colored dish laser hits the AT-AT leg and you see it return fire) where the leg movement was a bit jerky, like the Cyclops in SEVENTH VOYAGE OF SINBAD.

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

Author
Time

Ady, I just wondering, when ESB:R will be out, I'll make a dub for my own country language. The funny thing that I got dubs for the pre SE, and the SE versions, and asking you, how many changaes will be in. And I mean in the added/extended scenes (the ANH:R comparison helped me cut the audio to find the plus frames in the dtetntion area in the two shots in the Death Star for example). So will the lenght change, the runtime will be as the pre-SE or will be the SE runtime? Just thinking for the future.

Cheers.

Author
Time

Definatly pre-SE for the most part. There may be a few additions here or there, but it should be easier than ANHR.

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hello, I know I'm probably a few aeons late with this, but I recently found the updated Cloud City approach shot on youtube again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oehCAWqibFs

It's fair, but has a few issues IMHO. First, it seems to suffer from orange-itis, which is to say many films these days - particularly Star Wars Episodes II and III are guilty - suffer from an apparent inability to contain other colours than a deep, brilliant orange. It's almost monochromatic, and somewhat out of tune with the generally more natural coloration of the OT. The clouds are largely fine, but the falcon and the city itself should probably show more of their natural colour rather than being almost chameleon like in their pigmentation.

Secondly, I don't know wtf is up with the shading on Cloud City. I know it's from one of the old mattes? But it's not a particularly good matte TBH. The way it is lit it would have to be... well, almost paper thin actually.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/118/673913-cloud_city_large.jpg

If you see here this matte has a lot better shading with a small but smooth transitional band from direct sunlight to ambient light, which is generally how round things shade when they are matte. And the shot should probably be updated to better reflect the circular nature of the beast.

Author
Time

BmB, maybe bothering to read the description in the video you linked to would have given you a bit of a clue to the finished state of that shot

An unfinished clip from ESB:Revisited showing the new approach to Cloud City. It still has a lot of work left to be done to it but it gives you a good idea of how the new shot will be like

This video was uploaded ages ago and since then other shots have been posted showing the progress of the colouring.

As for the cloud city matte, the picture you say the shading should be like has the suns position completely different than the one in this shot. That picture has the sun almost directly to the side of the city, which would illuminate only that section and cause that deep grading. As you can see in the video, the sun is almost directly facing the city, so that kind of gradient would not happen

 

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time

BmB said:

Secondly, I don't know wtf is up with the shading on Cloud City. I know it's from one of the old mattes? But it's not a particularly good matte TBH. The way it is lit it would have to be... well, almost paper thin actually.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/118/673913-cloud_city_large.jpg

If you see here this matte has a lot better shading with a small but smooth transitional band from direct sunlight to ambient light, which is generally how round things shade when they are matte. And the shot should probably be updated to better reflect the circular nature of the beast.

You can take a taste of a more realistic shadowing and color grading as the sun moves in all directions :)


-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

Author
Time

There's a difference between shading and light source. You can still shade it the same way and have a different source for the light. I even painted out exactly which, and only this part of, the shading I was using as an example.

Vaderios' renders do a good job of showing that "deep gradings" don't occur unless the object in question is close to being paper thin. The transition phase from light to dark has a roughly fixed depth based on the shape and type of material.

And I know it's unfinished. However I also know that "unfinished" may also mean "close to final look" and figured any criticism would still be relevant to the parts you hadn't changed.

Author
Time

BmB said:

There's a difference between shading and light source. You can still shade it the same way and have a different source for the light.

Are you serious? Shading is directly affected by position and intensity of light and shape. You couldn't shade it the same way as the image you posted and have the light source in a direction that would illuminate the whole front of the city. You also have to take into account ambient light. The shot you posted the city is higher above the clouds than in the video. All these things have to be taken into account when calculating how the shading of an object should be.

BmB said:

Vaderios' renders do a good job of showing that "deep gradings" don't occur unless the object in question is close to being paper thin. The transition phase from light to dark has a roughly fixed depth based on the shape and type of material.

 

To say that because the video shot matte doesn't have the deep shading as the picture so it must be paper thin is just plain wrong. Vaderios has even proved this with his renders posted and these are 3D models not "paper thin" as you like to put it.

BmB said:


First, it seems to suffer from orange-itis, which is to say many films these days - particularly Star Wars Episodes II and III are guilty - suffer from an apparent inability to contain other colours than a deep, brilliant orange. It's almost monochromatic, and somewhat out of tune with the generally more natural coloration of the OT. The clouds are largely fine, but the falcon and the city itself should probably show more of their natural colour rather than being almost chameleon like in their pigmentation.ast.

Maybe you should go back and re-watch the original because that certainly doesn't have natural colouring because of the heavy all over colour filtering done to it.

BmB said:

And I know it's unfinished. However I also know that "unfinished" may also mean "close to final look" and figured any criticism would still be relevant to the parts you hadn't changed.

If it was close to the final look then i wouldn't have wrote this then would i...

It still has a lot of work left to be done to it.....

 

 

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time

"Unfinished" to Ady means "I'm still going to tweak this a hundred ways before it comes out." How Ady can lock anything down for release impresses me.

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

Author
Time

You really insist on misinterpreting my every word? Okay, let me show you instead.

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/eXQ12102.png

And yes, while the original is more heavily filtered this is to (successfully imho) create a very gloomy look where colour is nearly absent in favor of dark silhouettes against the sky. Your version is far more well lit and should have some more colour in it. Or, less, actually as both cloud city and the falcon are entirely grey.

Author
Time

Ripplin said:

Ok, let's get back to the hangar matte mock-ups. ;) That's the best thing that has happened to this thread in a LONG time! I was really happy to see some serious imagination at work

or something similar...since Adywan has already indicated his plans for that particular shot (but yes, very refreshing)

Author
Time

BmB said:

You really insist on misinterpreting my every word? Okay, let me show you instead.

http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/eXQ12102.png

And yes, while the original is more heavily filtered this is to (successfully imho) create a very gloomy look where colour is nearly absent in favor of dark silhouettes against the sky. Your version is far more well lit and should have some more colour in it. Or, less, actually as both cloud city and the falcon are entirely grey.

No i do not insist on misinterpreting every word you say at all. All i have done is answer back to exactly what you wrote. There is no misinterpreatation at all as it's as clear as day what you wrote.

And that picture you just posted with the comparisons you have actually proved yourself to be totally wrong. You are comparing completely the wrong sections of the city and , as you have shown, my new matte has exactly the same type of gradient so i really can't see the problem

And you have obviously checked the colouring on the 2004 set for this shot as it was never as dark as it is now, which is why i said to check the original, not the SE.

 

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Not to beat a dead horse (as this was brought up some time ago), but after watching this clip again , would it be more compositionally better if instead of the rear end of the AT-AT on the left (from 0:08) there was an AT-AT in the foreground in the right side of the screen (say we can see the feet, legs, and a part of the underbelly and the bottom of the head, but enough to the right so Luke is still clearly seen - say the head would be in the sky and part of the rear panel on the midground AT-AT's body)? 

That way instead of all the AT-ATs populating the midground of the shot, you would have something in the foreground, midground and background to establish some depth.  Also, Veer's AT-AT doesn't necessarily have to be the one in the center (I know the argument will be that Veer's AT-AT is the one leaving the frame; my point is primarily a visual one).

Another question: has anyone rewatched the AT-AT attack scene (from the binoc spotter to the shield generator being destroyed) to keep an eye not just on lightsource/shadow direction (from the sun) but clouds or lack of them?  If there is a higher percentage of cloudless sky shots, would it be conceivable to delete the clouds from the rest of the AT-AT attack scenes to develop consistency (ie. give the scene in the clip above a clear blue sky, among other scenes)?

I'm currently working on a mock-up of the above idea...


EDIT:
this way Luke is still the center of the subject image, but you have a progression of depth with the AT-ATs, with maybe snowspeeders flying inbetween them.



Being that when the AT-ATs are shooting at the rebels fleeing, the rebels are pretty spread out.  Thus when we see out of Veer's (or one of the other AT-AT) bridge window, it does not have to be in the center.  Thus the AT-AT in the foreground could be Veers (with the shot of the lone AT-AT shooting at the last fleeing rebel troop, the other 2 downed AT-ATs could be shown behind and to the left of it, since it is already on the right side of the screen):



Triangles are rough areas where destroyed AT-ATs could be... as the one is being tripped (in the background) as Luke goes up the midground AT-AT, both of their wreckage should be roughly beside each other.

I guess further back, the other 2 AT-AT bodies should be present too (probably far behind the AT-AT and slightly to the right), with smoke trails similar to what is coming from the destroyed rebel gun turrets.

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

Author
Time
 (Edited)

A few other notes:

(1) When talking about the scene where Dac gets into Luke's snowspeeder and they start to lift off, there is a blocky part underneath the snowspeeder used to hide the forklift lifting it up.  Is there any way to delete this and "flatten" the bottom of the snowspeeder?






You can see it better in this clip at 1:15

(2) And will you be working on the AT-AT matte in this shot?:

 

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

Author
Time

Monrovilloe, that AT-AT shot has gone through a lot of changes since i posted that clip. The AT-AT doesn't fall and the background has been completely changed (sorry Vaderios, but you matte no longer features in ESB:R)

As for the changing clouds/ light direction, well i'm not going to be doing anything about that. It's just too much work and it hasn't really bothered me

And there is nothing i can do about the bottom of the speeder because the trooper who stands in front of it as it lifts off & all the background troops are  partially covered by the underside box and there wouldn't be any way i could replace the missing sections

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time

Okeydoke.. just posting it out there.

         

 “You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”

– Homer Simpson

Author
Time

adywan said:


No i do not insist on misinterpreting every word you say at all. All i have done is answer back to exactly what you wrote. There is no misinterpreatation at all as it's as clear as day what you wrote.

And that picture you just posted with the comparisons you have actually proved yourself to be totally wrong. You are comparing completely the wrong sections of the city and , as you have shown, my new matte has exactly the same type of gradient so i really can't see the problem

And you have obviously checked the colouring on the 2004 set for this shot as it was never as dark as it is now, which is why i said to check the original, not the SE.

No, I am not wrong because the shading on the matte is completely messed up for what you are trying to use it for. In fact looking at the comparison I see the original use for it, which is with the dim sun behind it. Where rim lighting like that works fine and the gradient is not distracting as simple ambient detailing. I have a fairly good understanding of how things should shade, and I think maybe you should have vaderios render a shading of cloud city to match your lighting situation if you can't see that it's wrong.

Author
Time

BmB, i'm pretty sure that you just want to argue the toss for the hell of it now as you have done with almost every other post in here. Can you not see that you are pointing out the WRONG sections of the city in the pic you posted of my matte when comparing it to the other matte? And that if you had pointed out the correct sections then you would see that the gradient is almost the same? And the matte is shaded completely different than the original so i don't know what the hell you are talking about. The lighting is in a completely different direction. Vaderios has already done renders of the city which proved that the gradient isn't how you say it should be, but you'll just keep harping on about it and, quite frankly, i'm getting a little sick and tired of it. It wouldn't matter if Vaderios rendered a hundred pictures that would prove you wrong because you would still not accept it. And even when i explained that the shot was way off being finished in the video clip you just had to continue.

Sorry but i just can't be doing with this type of crap at the moment so i'm going to choose to ignore you. Congratulations, you're now the only one on my ignore list.

This thread has become bogged down with too much crap lately and the serious posts have become lost in the pile

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Your loss.

I love what you're doing here but if you are simply too stuck up to take criticism proper, then I can't help but fear for the final quality.

Author
Time

I am glad to hear that the AT-AT doesn't fall. I like the fact that in the original movie they only manage to take out a couple of walkers. the battle of Hoth was a walkover for the Empire. Showing more walkers getting destroyed would lessen the impact of the story.

IMHO

Author
Time

Oh and I love the original jerky mechanical motions of the walkers too. Bit of a homage to Ray Harryhausen I reckon. However for the taun tauns I like the new fluid motion, after all they are supposed to be alive.