Info: James Bond - Laserdisc Preservations: 1962-1971 — Page 8

Some of those CBS fox releases had the mono mix of the films stereo-ized to none too stellar effect, from what i hear.

I just watched the MGM From Russia with Love Pan and Scan second issue in analog sound only and it was tracked in stereo, ridiculous the mix is supposed to be monaural, i don't care if it is put into 2 channels, but making a fake stereo version of the theatrical mix is just stupid.  Remixes from the original stems are a different story.

One thing i did like about the UE DVD's was the correct aspect ratio, the original theatrical audio.  On most if not all the DVD's.

The first letterbox version of License to Kill was on Fox video, as i recall.

Yep. LTK was one of their WS LDs. I got it in a bargain bin and it looks and sounds excellent. Unfortunately it is the cut version.

I remember that Thunderball cover on the original VHS tape I rented all those years ago. I still miss that and the later mid 90's MGM tape covers.

Just watched OHMSS and DAF last night. OHMSS was fantastic on my old SE disc-it felt just right. DAF on the UE was a marked difference. It was too pristine because Lowry had scrubbed out the life of the film. Lowry is the ultimate enemy of Technicolor.

I bought the UEs mainly for the correct ratios and original audio. However, I compared the SE OHMSS audio to the mono track on the UE and they sounded slightly different.

What were the sources for the SE discs? Some like OHMSS look like they were directly from prints and others from LD masters.

EW LOWRY

Overrestoration is worse than no restoration, imho.

After spending the last few weeks looking at the different versions, my conclusions are that the print source used for the Lowry Digital  restorations (as seen on the Ultimate Edition set and Blu-ray discs) are the same as the 1989 Laserdisc series masters. The Connery Collection Vol. One and Two also used these masters. But, there are still some major adjustments made to the Lowry Digital  restorations. In some cases, visual effects have been removed. Such as a red blood filter missing from the shark pool scene in the Lowry restoration of Thunderball. 

Here again is an example of the cover design format used for that 1989 laserdisc series, so you can find these disks if you are collecting.

Same print masters are used for Connery Collection Vol. One and Two box sets in the early 1990's. The Connery Collection has a slightly better quality then the 1989 editions. This seems to be from the equipment used to make the disks.  That is why I am sourcing my preservation's video from The Connery Collection sets.

Note: "From Russia With Love" includes a music and effects only track on this set. 

____

Now on to the Criterion Collection versions of the first three Dr. No, From Russia With Love, and Goldfinger.

Note to collectors: Only the first printing two disc versions of the Criterion Collection have the banned audio commentary, and music and effects tracks. The single disc editions DO NOT. And, there is no music and effects track for "From Russia With Love" on the Criterion Collection two disk sets, just for "Dr. No" and "Goldfinger".

The Criterion Collection editions seem to be zoomed in a bit, therefore you lose some picture information. It's sad because the color on that series is very nice, and is more likely what the filmmakers intended. Didn't someone on this thread say that director Terence Young approved of the Criterion Collection's look or something along those lines a few weeks ago?

But still, the films are not in the correct aspect ratio, and there is some very evident print damage. By time the S.E. DVD's came out, this print damage was fixed, but the aspect ratio problem persisted. And O.H.M.S.S. was slightly edited.

Edit: In my opinion, the 1989 laser is the definitive version. With just the slightest bit of basic color and  brightness/Contrast adjustment, this film looks great. I'll preserve it!

What I will do is post some identical frames from each version here, as soon as I find the time to do so. This way you get a better idea of how these versions differ.

It is possible for me to match the Connery Collection's color to the color on the Criterion Collection. This would give you the correct color and the correct aspect ratio.  Then, I use the best original sound in lossless PCM mono (via the digital channel) . No fake stereo. The sound on the Criterion Collection is horrible by the way. Also, the Criterion Collection has this very bad problem. When the film starts on each side, the colors take a few frames to adjust. Don't know, but this could be a sign of the disks giving out to rot. 

FF 

I know that Terrence Young approved of the Criterion transfers-not sure about Guy Hamilton. The color does look amazing on those. (If only they had done Thunderball!)

The framing on the first three were always at the American standard of 1.85:1. In Europe they would be played in their original 1.66:1. So while the cropping is regrettable it isn't the absolute worst in the world. I had no idea that some of the LDs were actually in 1.66:1. This is good!

The Lowry produced UEs came from the original negatives. They went through a whole big hoopla about doing that, but now the opticals stand out like a sore thumb and the films are too cleaned up. Some colors (especially in Goldfinger) look "fresher" to my eyes but they don't seem to be what was originally shot. Comparing the UE to your original Criterion conversion makes this evident. Lowry (and most every modern studio) doesn't give a damn about original color timing. They go back to negatives and do whatever they feel like.

Thanks for comparing these, and those photos are a great help. I will now have to start collecting these to satisfy my inner Bond completist.

Screencaps would be greatly appreciated.

I noticed that the SE of OHMSS had some dialogue missing and that was supposedly one of the flaws on the first pressings of the SE discs. (And it definitely has print damage on the DVD.) If that 89 LD looks like the best to you then I'm definitely looking forward to it. Watching that old disc was an inspiration. It was like watching the film back in my childhood-because that pure technicolor was intact.

That last bit sounds like the ultimate early Connery preservation.

From what i have found out the pre special edition, THX version DVD's have both a widescreen version of the films and the full screen on the same disc.  Wonder if they are letterbox or anamorphic, according to what i read these were Dual Layer DVD's and something of a novelty at the time.  Of course now all DVD's or mostly all are DL.

I wonder if they are anamorphic, or if they are just the laserdisc video ported over.  The Special Editions came out later.

skyjedi2005 said:

From what i have found out the pre special edition, THX version DVD's have both a widescreen version of the films and the full screen on the same disc.  Wonder if they are letterbox or anamorphic, according to what i read these were Dual Layer DVD's and something of a novelty at the time.  Of course now all DVD's or mostly all are DL.

I wonder if they are anamorphic, or if they are just the laserdisc video ported over.  The Special Editions came out later.

As said earlier in the thread, I have all of these except TSWLM. All have anamorphic transfers on one layer. Moonraker rotted(!) but the others are fine. Watched bits of them a couple weeks ago, and they hold up on a modern flat screen.

SilverWook said:

skyjedi2005 said:

From what i have found out the pre special edition, THX version DVD's have both a widescreen version of the films and the full screen on the same disc.  Wonder if they are letterbox or anamorphic, according to what i read these were Dual Layer DVD's and something of a novelty at the time.  Of course now all DVD's or mostly all are DL.

I wonder if they are anamorphic, or if they are just the laserdisc video ported over.  The Special Editions came out later.

As said earlier in the thread, I have all of these except TSWLM. All have anamorphic transfers on one layer. Moonraker rotted(!) but the others are fine. Watched bits of them a couple weeks ago, and they hold up on a modern flat screen.

I would love to see these THX discs! Can you tell us what bit rate they use?

Just for the record, my copy of the "Moonraker" Special Edition started to show signs of rot over a year ago. My "Goldfinger" now has rot related errors too. So it's not just the THX series with these problems.

ChainsawAsh said:

Would there be any benefit to color-correcting the Ultimate Editions based on the colors in the Criteron LDs, etc., then syncing the original audio and banned commentaries to those?

I'm not sure I could replicate the grain look that was lost on the U.E. set. I would have to play with them a bit to find out.

FF

FanFiltration said:

SilverWook said:

skyjedi2005 said:

From what i have found out the pre special edition, THX version DVD's have both a widescreen version of the films and the full screen on the same disc.  Wonder if they are letterbox or anamorphic, according to what i read these were Dual Layer DVD's and something of a novelty at the time.  Of course now all DVD's or mostly all are DL.

I wonder if they are anamorphic, or if they are just the laserdisc video ported over.  The Special Editions came out later.

As said earlier in the thread, I have all of these except TSWLM. All have anamorphic transfers on one layer. Moonraker rotted(!) but the others are fine. Watched bits of them a couple weeks ago, and they hold up on a modern flat screen.

I would love to see these THX discs! Can you tell us what bit rate they use?

Just for the record, my copy of the "Moonraker" Special Edition started to show signs of rot over a year ago. My "Goldfinger" now has rot related errors too. So it's not just the THX series with these problems.

IIRC, my Blu Ray player has a bit rate indicator display. I'll try to find out tomorrow night.

FanFiltration said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Would there be any benefit to color-correcting the Ultimate Editions based on the colors in the Criteron LDs, etc., then syncing the original audio and banned commentaries to those?

I'm not sure I could replicate the grain look that was lost on the U.E. set. I would have to play with them a bit to find out.

FF

I don't think it can be done. Lowry completely erased everything from their negative scans. Much of the grain came from the original prints and their age. Found a few more SE discs in the local library and there is no way to get that high amount of grain back into Dr. No if going from the Lowry transfer. This isn't even figuring in the color difference. It's massive.

From what I know about the THX discs, Goldeneye was a port of the original DVD and the others were either the ports of their last LDs or the result of the canceled one. It was intended to be a last LD line of 007, but only a few were actually released. The original listings are up on lddb.com. The THX edition of TSWLM is supposed to hold up better than either the SE or the UE. It only has that same 5.1 remix though.

captainsolo said:The THX edition of TSWLM is supposed to hold up better than either the SE or the UE. It only has that same 5.1 remix though.

So the DTS track on the UE is the best lossless source available then. 

Last week I got my hands on the THX "Thunderball" laser from that same series.

I found out that the 30th Anniversary box did not include a 5.1 AC-3 channel as I thought it did.  It only has surround sound on the digital channel.

Here are some comparisons from the different laserdisc versions of "Goldfinger".

THX BOX SET

The Criterion Collection

The Connery Collection

THX BOX SET

The Criterion Collection

The Connery Collection

THX BOX SET

The Criterion Collection

The Connery Collection

Why is the Criterion color so different?

captainsolo said:

Why is the Criterion color so different?

I have a feeling that it all has to do with the original source for the digital copy.  I bet the Criterion version came from some archive print that was sent out by MGM/UA to festivals and special showings of the film over the years. The type of print damage and film tears seen within the film seems to back this theory up. When the Criterion Collection started (late 80's), a letterbox release of a film was a very new and untested marketing gamble for the home market. The thing that might have been an issue is that Criterion was just leasing the rights to distribute the film. MGM most likely sent them a festival type print that Janus films (owner/partner with Criterion) had transferred to digital themselves.  I don't think much effort was made to unearth the best of best prints of films in the early days. For another example of this, take a look at the horrendous print of "Let it Be" that U.A. sent to Magnetic Home Video Corporation for their leased edition of that film.   When MGM/U.A. saw how well the home video market was doing, and also saw how well received the Bond films had been for Criterion, they must have decided to begin distributing their films themselves. It must have been at this time that a newer digital copy was made by MGM/U.A. from a source closer to the negative for their Deluxe Letter Box Series of Bond films in 1989. The 1989 disks sure are not from the Criterion source as you can see. I think the film must have looked closer to the Criterion version when it was out in the Cinema though. 

___

Edit:

Here is something I never knew about the "Goldfinger" Ultimate Edition DVD. It seems to be missing some frames. The missing frames are located at the 1:17:10 mark right after Oddjob passes the turn to the airport. I will have to look at the Special Edition and THX DVDs to see if they are also missing from them. The Criterion laserdisc has the frames intact.

A Letter from Lowry Digital from another site:

Thanks for your kind attention to “Goldfinger”. We’re very proud of the work we do.
MGM made all of the creative decisions relative to the Bond library (as do all our restoration clients). We invented, and provide, the toolset to accomplish the restorations to the taste, and under the guidance of, our clientele. In the case of “Goldfinger” we were provided with original negative, which we digitized prior to the actual restoration work. I cannot say if the negative was somehow altered prior to scanning and since other versions were released.
We’ve had some interesting feedback about the Bonds. In one case, it was observed that we changed a scene from previous telecine transfers when in fact previous issues contained a telecine fix that was not in the original negative. In some cases we were expressly directed not to change errors in principal photography because audiences were familiar with, and would prefer the flaws.
In any event, feedback means people are watching and interested, and that’s great. Your comments may encourage a more detailed response if you direct them to the content owner, in this case MGM. MGM has undergone many personnel changes over the last couple years, and distribution rights have moved as well. Perhaps it would be best to refer you to Eon in the UK. You may find contact info for MGM and Eon on their websites.
Kind regards,
Alan Silvers
Director/Business Development
Lowry Digital"

If I had to pick I'd say the THX box has the best look. Also, I don't think Lowry's as bad as everyone says... it's probably the studios that mess with it after. I mean, the variance in Bond movie quality is proof enough (as I always cite, Live and Let Die).

After doing some more tests, it looks like the THX laserdisc box set of "Goldfinger" and the Special Edition DVD are the same exact source. The SE DVD is just a tad bit darker, but the image information is exactly the same.

S.E. DVD

THX Laserdisc

Well, that's a shame. Doesn't that mean that the THX Laserdisc is not in the OAR? Actually, it looks like the SE has more on the left and less on the right...

THX Laserdisc - Unmodified

THX Laserdisc - Modified by FanFiltration

S.E. DVD - unmodified

I did some basic adjustment tests...

That confirms my suspicions. GF and TB SE DVDs come from their respective THX box sets. The others are straight from their home video telecines.

The color on GF looks great on the THX and SE, but maybe that's because I'm used to it. The Criterion color still seems off to me.

From what I know about the missing GF frames, I think it was first cut out by MGM for the THX box set.

The only way we will ever get perfect versions of the Bonds is if we obtain original IB prints of the films, and British ones for the first three.

captainsolo said:

That confirms my suspicions. GF and TB SE DVDs come from their respective THX box sets. The others are straight from their home video telecines.

I'm not sure about "O.H.M.S.S." S.E. DVD being from the same source as the laserdisc. The 1989 laserdisc has around 25 seconds more footage then the 2000 Special Edition DVD.  There is also some music score alterations on the S.E. DVD during the safe break in scene.  The 2007 Ultimate Edition restored that footage, but did not include the original mono mix of the film.

A very good info page on the different home video versions of "O.H.M.S.S."

can be found here > http://www.zetaminor.com/dvd/james_bond_dvd/james_bond_guide_3_ohmss.htm

I'm pretty sure the Region 1 UE DVD has the mono mix, because that's what I listened to!

Bond fans in Region 2 did inexplicably get stiffed on it though.

SilverWook said:

I'm pretty sure the Region 1 UE DVD has the mono mix, because that's what I listened to!

Bond fans in Region 2 did inexplicably get stiffed on it though.

You are 100% correct. The R1 of O.H.M.S.S. does have the mono, just not lossless PCM.