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Plot holes in the SW saga — Page 5

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there are no DS around, but they programmed the comp to simulate a DS for purposes of strategy.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: HotRod
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Originally posted by: vtpeters
Hang on a sec.....

Where are these changes you speak of????


All the changes he made to the OT for the 1997 SE. None of them added (much) to the story and were only meant to be eye candy, correct some minor 'defects' in the effect shots or better represent his 'vision' (up-scaling Mos Eisley, etc.).
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some of that eye-candy you speak of is actually quite cool.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: jimbo
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Originally posted by: HotRod
Actually in Jimbos defense...

In 1980 when Empire cam out, you could by a folding poster thing. On the back was a load of info an shit!!
One had a piece about the Empire, and it stated there that the Stormtroopers were clones...

Also, Jimbo is correct in saying, if Goerge Lucas says they are Clones, then they are Clones.
They may not have been once, but they are now!



Wow I did not know that. If thats true then the Stormtroopers were always considered clones. I originally assumed that he didn't believe that until he made the prequals.




I bet there will be another DVD release of the SE Trilogy after the movies wrap up something like The STOOPER EDITION of Star Wars and on top of all the added CG from the SE it will include Jango Fetts voice dubbed of all the Troopers voices...

How long have you had these Droids.........

Weak man weak, but he it's GL's story right?

I just gotta think - SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEVE

Word

RiK

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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The thing is...

If when the Ultimate editions do come out, and they do change all the voices of the stormtroopers to that of Jango and the Clones...........

Wouldn't that make the scene with Han and Luke dressed up as Troopers bollox...

I mean, Soon as Solo opens his mouth to the Officer in the Detention block, he's gonna realise that something is up...Well realise sooner than he already does that is......

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Originally posted by: SpecialEditionSaboteur
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Originally posted by: HotRod
vtpeters


I doubt if GL meant for Obi-wan to "speak in tongues" if you will, I think he only made it look that way as each movie came along in order to make it easier for him to cover up his previous mistakes. That's why that conversation with Luke was added in ROTJ; so people could make sense out of Obi-wan telling Luke that Vader killed his father in ANH.

So yes, they are plot holes--or were.



No they are not man...

Look...Put it this way...

Luke has just met Obi Wan...

Do you really think Obi wan is gonna blurt out what happened to Lukes father straight away...no he is not..

"Hello Luke...Oh by the way, your father was my best friend, but couldnt handle the way I was treating him, so he joined up with the Emporor and killed your mother and eevryone who cared for him..Then Fucked off and ruled the Galaxy with his new master....Don't want to scare you or anything but it might happen to you too...Oh and heres his lightsabre"

No..........

See....George knows what he is doing!!!

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Originally posted by: HotRod
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Originally posted by: SpecialEditionSaboteur
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Originally posted by: HotRod
vtpeters


I doubt if GL meant for Obi-wan to "speak in tongues" if you will, I think he only made it look that way as each movie came along in order to make it easier for him to cover up his previous mistakes. That's why that conversation with Luke was added in ROTJ; so people could make sense out of Obi-wan telling Luke that Vader killed his father in ANH.

So yes, they are plot holes--or were.



No they are not man...

Look...Put it this way...

Luke has just met Obi Wan...

Do you really think Obi wan is gonna blurt out what happened to Lukes father straight away...no he is not..

"Hello Luke...Oh by the way, your father was my best friend, but couldnt handle the way I was treating him, so he joined up with the Emporor and killed your mother and eevryone who cared for him..Then F****d off and ruled the Galaxy with his new master....Don't want to scare you or anything but it might happen to you too...Oh and heres his lightsabre"

No..........

See....George knows what he is doing!!!




Yeah. I think Lucas planned to have Vader be Luke's father all along, otherwise they would'nt have put so much emphasis on him in A New Hope. Lines like "the Force is strong with this one" make more sense in the context of Vader being Lukes father, since Vader is the second strongest in the Force ever. Also, Luke has met Ben Kenobi before A New Hope. Watch the scene again. Luke doesn't introduce himself.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Yeah. I think Lucas planned to have Vader be Luke's father all along, otherwise they would'nt have put so much emphasis on him in A New Hope. Lines like "the Force is strong with this one" make more sense in the context of Vader being Lukes father, since Vader is the second strongest in the Force ever. Also, Luke has met Ben Kenobi before A New Hope. Watch the scene again. Luke doesn't introduce himself.


As hard as it seems to swallow by some here on the forum, GL wasn't sure if he wanted to go through with the father-son relationship between Vader and Luke, which was part of the cliffhanger at the end of Episode V. He decided that he would go ahead with this idea while writing Episode VI. I got this from his own mouth in the documentary "Star Wars to Jedi, the making of a Saga", which I have on VHS.

As far as 'signs' of their relationship already shining through in Episode IV...
Luke's father might have been a Jedi knight and murdered by Darth Vader, just as Obi-Wan told Luke. On basis of the information given in Episode IV and the first part of Episode V (before the "I am your father" thing at the end), Luke's father and Darth Vader could just as well be two intirely different persons all together. Luke being strong with the force (as noted by Darth Vader during the Trench scene) could be due to Luke being the son of a former Jedi knight (who is dead for all we know at the time) and not necessarely because he is Darth Vader's son.

Obi-Wan and Luke have never met before (in person) prior to their meating in A New Hope.
When they meet, Obi-Wan knows who Luke is and calles him by his name. Luke however looks at the old man and asks: "Ben? Ben Kenobi?" Not a question you'd ask if you've met someone before.
During a dining scene at uncle Owens farm, leading up to the discovery that the little R2 unit has gone, Luke says the R2 unit might have been stolen and that it claims to belong to someone named Obi-Wan Kenobi. "Maybe he means old Ben Kenobi? Do you know what he's talking about?" Luke appearently doens't know that Obi-Wan and Ben are one and the same person.
This are examples of how well Luke knows Ben (NOT!). More likely Luke knows off Ben instead of knowing him. Obi-Wan however is more likely to know more about Luke. He might have been interested in Luke's walk of life for sentimental reasons, being the son of his former apprentice, or with the purpose to train him as a Jedi.
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I yhink Luke and Obi-Wan have met before ANH, but briefly, maybe didn't even talk to each other properly, and he always introduced himself as Ben Kenobi, never as Obi-Wan.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I agree with Ric there. I think maybe they met when Luke was younger, say five or so years ago, maybe when his uncle was there and he was whisked away before they could talk. BTW I feel Uncle Owen definitely knows all about Obi Wan, which is why he wants to keep Luke away from him. Maybe I am just stating the obvious there...
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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"Wouldn't that make the scene with Han and Luke dressed up as Troopers bollox...

I mean, Soon as Solo opens his mouth to the Officer in the Detention block, he's gonna realise that something is up...Well realise sooner than he already does that is...... "

Oh, don't worry about THAT... I'm sure GL can seamlessly edit that scene out to tie in with his new vision. Or he could just redub Luke and Han's voices with Jango's throughout the entire trilogy so then he could say, "Well, actually, Luke and Han sounded just like Jango all along..."

Another point: He would also have to redub Boba Fett's voice in ESB to sound like Jango as well...
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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Oh, and I just thought of another "plot hole": Isn't it an incredible coincindence that "A long time ago in a galaxy far,far away" there just happened to be a race who looked just like us, spoke English... and called themselves "humans"? :-)
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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Originally posted by: HotRod
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Originally posted by: SpecialEditionSaboteur
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Originally posted by: HotRod
vtpeters


I doubt if GL meant for Obi-wan to "speak in tongues" if you will, I think he only made it look that way as each movie came along in order to make it easier for him to cover up his previous mistakes. That's why that conversation with Luke was added in ROTJ; so people could make sense out of Obi-wan telling Luke that Vader killed his father in ANH.

So yes, they are plot holes--or were.



No they are not man...

Look...Put it this way...

Luke has just met Obi Wan...

Do you really think Obi wan is gonna blurt out what happened to Lukes father straight away...no he is not..

"Hello Luke...Oh by the way, your father was my best friend, but couldnt handle the way I was treating him, so he joined up with the Emporor and killed your mother and eevryone who cared for him..Then Fucked off and ruled the Galaxy with his new master....Don't want to scare you or anything but it might happen to you too...Oh and heres his lightsabre"

No..........

See....George knows what he is doing!!!


Actually Lucas doesnt know what the hell he's doing. From what I've read Lucas changed his mind at the last minute in ESB to make vader his father. So, how does that say he knows what he's doing? Lucas developed this story as it went on, just like he's doing it now.
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Another plot hole which seems to have been overlooked so far:

In ANH, Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen feared that Luke "Might follow old Obi-Wan off on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did"

This is inconsistent with the characters of Obi-Wan and Anakin in Eps I and II. Obi-Wan is sensible and responsible, whereas Anakin is the reckless one. Which one of the two is more likely to want to go off on "some damn fool idealistic crusade"? - Certainly not Obi-Wan.

I wonder if Episode III will explain what the "damn fool idealistic crusade" was? Whatever the Obi-Wan of the PT chooses to fight for, he takes it far too seriously to disparage it as "damn fool idealistic". Or maybe, by the time of ANH he has become old and cynical. Perhaps by that time he thinks that the whole idea of fighting for the lost Republic and saving the Galaxy from the Dark Side was all one big lost cause, so he writes off the whole enterprise as just "some damn fool idealistic crusade" which had not chance of success.

Another potential plot hole also appears in the same scene in ANH when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen thought Luke's father "should have stayed here (on Tattooine) and not gotten involved". For it to be a correct account of Luke's father's life, Episode III will have to involved Anakin once again returning to his home planet of Tattooine and Owen: (a) trying to exert influence over Anakin; and (b) expressing a political opinion. Neither of these actions seem very likely from the meek and quiet Owen we see in Episode II.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of Scum and Villianny. We must be cautious."
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A possible explanation for both those lines: Obvoiusly at some point Obi Wan moves to live on Tatooine to watch over Luke, who resides with Owen and Beru. Now, is it possible that, at first, Obi Wan and Owen get together every now and then and discuss the "old days", and as time goes on their discussions devolve into bitter arguements; Owen blames Anakins "death"on Obiwan, comes to think of him as reckless, comes to think that he lured Anakin away with exotic tales of the larger universe etc. And eventually it gets so bad they just stop talking to each other. This would explain those two lines ( that they are not based on what actually happened, but just on Owens beliefs and his opinion of Obi Wan), and also explain why Owen doesn't want Luke associating with him.
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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yeah, with some alterations that would be cool samatar.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: Samatar
Oh, and I just thought of another "plot hole": Isn't it an incredible coincindence that "A long time ago in a galaxy far,far away" there just happened to be a race who looked just like us, spoke English... and called themselves "humans"? :-)


I assume you are joking, but if not: they speak in basic, and the movie "translates" basic to english. About the humans thing, I've always wondered about that too, but maybe... one day, a ship full of humans crashed on a distant and unknown planet called Earth...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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samatar, you must be joking right???
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Pretty much. Of course it would be a bit silly if they all spoke some other language and we had subtitles thorugh the whole movie. But I do find it strange, in a way, when they refer to themselves as "humans". I mean, humans come from Earth, right? But yeah, it's just an amusing observation.
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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yes humans come from Earth, but one could logically say as well that humans are Homo Sapiens, which is us, and them... meaning they are humans as well.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Again...Theres no plot holes in Star Wars..

Yes, George may have made the movies up as he went along, but there are no holes in his story....

"Your father should have stayed here and not gotten involed" - Maybe he was refreing to young Anakin leaving Tatooine with Qui-gon and Obi-wan the first time round...
After all, Shmi spent a good few years with the Lars, plenty of time for her to tell the story of how her little boy was going to be a great Jedi!!!

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Two theories:

1- In the star wars universe, there was no Earth, and never there will be. Humans are just an alien race that looks like us, and for some reason, they are a dominating alien race. This is probably the answer.

2- Maybe they have some conection with us... maybe time is cyclical, and we are them in the future/past. Or maybe they will become us...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Or we will become Star Trek and meet them in a few hundred years. AAAHHHHH, way too logical. Han slap me before, damn, it's Mr. Spock.

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Don't you ever mention this... abomination called star trek.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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It is illogical to hate another Star franchise because of......smack.....Thank you Luke, no more Mr. Spock.