Replacing the letterbox will cut down on file size and make encoding a hell of a lot easier. Instead of having to render all those changing colours and gradients, it will just be one block of colour information constantly through the film.
Yeah, but removing the letterboxing would mean reencodig the source yet again, which I don't want to do because with my computer I just can't work with lossless video. I'll have to see what I'll be able to do about it, maybe, when encoding the DVD files...
And yeah, I already further adjusted the unmasking scene after the workprint and made the contrast levels closer, so now it shouldn't be very noticeable but the GKAR quality is still lower than the 2004 and I that's also why I don't want to use GKAR for the whole scene.
Also keep in mind that (sadly) the different sources are much more noticeable in the DVD than in the workprint, because of the compression, so you can't really judge that based on the workprint.
Wait, so has the project been rendered and finished? Because all you have to do to cover up the letterbox bars is just use the video editor you are using and put a black mask over those sections, most editors have a tool for doing letterboxing over top of the existing video.
Can I ask what GKAR means? I know what it is, that is it refers to one of the three sources used for the edit along with the GOUT and '04 DVD I just don't know what the specifics are.
I watch the workprint last night. Well about a third and then I scanned through the rest (Endor and Death Star). I can only speak generally because I'm far from technical but the colours looked good (a big issue with me). Vader's lightsaber looks better. I agree on the letterboxing/ black bars issue that's been brought up.
I don't have the workprint on hand right now to reference but I thought the Jabba Palace dance sequence looked good enough. Maybe a little bit too much GOUT, but what's the alternative?
I'm as much as a purist as the next guy but I personally don't see the point of using the Rancor/Luke footage from the GOUT. The drop in quality to retain the matte lines I don't think is worth it. Of course whenever the theatrical ROTJ is truly restored I want to see matte lines but that's because it won't be at the expense of quality.
I think it's an unnecessary distraction. It's not like Adwayn's TESB reconstruction didn't have SE Snowspeeder recompositions.
The same could be said for the shot of Boba Fett flying across screen into the Sail Barge after being hit in the Jetpack. Sure they're different shots from OUT to SE but I think in essence they're the same thing. I can't believe I'm saying this.
I say this not to criticise, but because most of the Salaac/ Barge battle shots look great and the quality you've been able to maintain while removing cg tentacles etc is really impressive. It's just my opinion. I know this is your project, do what satisfies you, not just one random person on the internet.
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
True, I don't think there's anything significant to be gained from using older versions of the Rancor scene. The compositing, the contrast, and the general picture quality of the '04 in this case are all far better, and switching to older shots just isn't worth it. It's still all the original source material, basically just cleaned up; it's not like there was any CGI that needed replacing.
As far as my 5.1 goes, the inclusion of the Obi-wan scene's deleted music does make it an unofficial hybrid mix, and I understand if that is found objectionable; but I will point out that adywan's ESB used the SE mix, which contains several elements unique to that version that were not present in the original release, most notably several music edits, in addition to various sound effects and stereo surround channels. So strictly speaking that isn't quite 'authentic' either, sound-wise, but it has met with well-deserved acclaim. If Harmy likes how my RotJ sounds, I don't see any reason not to use it as long as an official stereo track was also included; but of course that's just my view.
When I listened to Adywan's 5.1 (not in 5.1, sadly), I didn't notice any of the SE alterations, and that includes the music edits. I believe he used portions of the '93 mix upmixed to 5.1 for those scenes (with some blending to make sure the difference wasn't too noticeable). He also reinstated the snowspeeder crash sound.
I dunno, maybe I'm remembering wrong. I'll check later on to be sure.
And I don't really mind either way about the Rancor.
And Harmy, a black mask over the letterboxing is absolutely essential, trust me. Make sure it covers the black bars entirely (so we don't see a thin strip of gray over some scenes), but covers up as little of the picture as possible (preferably none at all).
hairy_hen said:
True, I don't think there's anything significant to be gained from using older versions of the Rancor scene. The compositing, the contrast, and the general picture quality of the '04 in this case are all far better, and switching to older shots just isn't worth it. It's still all the original source material, basically just cleaned up; it's not like there was any CGI that needed replacing.
I agree 100%. As it's still the same scene only superior in quality i think its a better idea to include the 04 footage . Just a sugestion Harmy as its your work , your call .
Sorry, guys, but absolutely not. Unlike the digital recomposites of speeders in Empire and some of those I'm keeping in Jedi, the original Rancor was so notoriously bad that the cleaned up version is just way too apparently new. I'd actually love to replace all the recomposites and am still tempted to do it but some I most probably won't, because the only source is the GOUT and the difference between old and new is really small but I have GKAR as a source for the Rancor shots, so the quality difference is not big at all.
I always had a grudge against the recomposited shots, maybe worse than some of the added CG scenes and here's why:
When I was a small kid, I only had the original original STAR WARS on VHS and that's what I was growing up with until a few years later I got the SE trilogy set. I always loved to play the FX scenes frame by frame and analyse the FX and try to spot the imperfections and the mate lines and I just admired what they were able to achive in 1977 - 1983 without computers (especialy the asteroid chase and the cloud city approach - I knew which shots were the all new digital additions and didn't watch those that way, because there's nothing interesting about analysing CG that way) and I still kept looking for the originals more out of interest than for thinking they were better. And when, years later,I finally found the original Empire and Jedi, (they weren't easy to find here at all) I played the two versions on two VCRs at the same time and was switching between them to try and spot the differences...
...I was horrified when I discovered that some of the shots I so admired were actually fake. And I found out that the original FX did look amazing for the time and on top of it had a beautiful charm about them, exactly because of the mate lines and other imperfections; That's what first made me hate the SEs, not the CG, because I didn't feel cheated by the CG, I could clearly tell what was CG and what wasn't, but by the recomposites I felt tricked, because I finally realized that when watching the SE I couldn't (and still can't) be sure whether I'm watching what was achieved all these years ago without computers or not. And then as I grew up, I of course realized that the CG and 90% of all the SE changes harmed the films as a story, not only as an FX exhibition. And even though I don't watch the FX scenes frame by frame anymore, (well, not very often anyways :-) ) I still have that feeling of being tricked by the recomposites when I watch the films.
see you auntie said:
Can I ask what GKAR means? I know what it is, that is it refers to one of the three sources used for the edit along with the GOUT and '04 DVD I just don't know what the specifics are.
Oh, sorry, missed that before. GKAR is a recording of the 97 SE from a German digital broadcast and is anamorphic PAL. The quality is a bit lower than the 04 DVD but better than the GOUT.
Harmy, I watched this last night and overall the colors looked fine to me. I did not spot any glaring errors. I will have another little look and PM you any small points I notice, but so far this looks very good. :-)
Thanks, Chewtobacca.
You'll all be glad to hear that I managed to fix the black boarders problem, so now they should be consistently black throughout the whole film :-)
I haven't followed this project that close and don't know the details about what you're doing but couldn't Fullscreen or pan & scan transfers of the original trilogy be utilized for this kind of work you and adywan is doing?
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Harmy, no explanation necessary. Like one of the previous posters wrote - your work, your call.
The Rancor scenes look good enough. The shot of Boba Fett I previously mentioned, eh, not so much.
"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt
msycamore:
In theory, that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Unfortunately, the only way for that to work is to capture a pan-and-scan laserdisc, and all of those are of much worse quality than the GOUT. That, plus the fact that some sections on the sides may need to be restored using a widescreen version anyway, means that it would just be too glaringly obvious a difference.
I thought about that possibility, I thought maybe it wouldn't be a bad source for some of the compositing, for example Mr. Shaw's eyebrows, it should provide much higher resolution for the composite of that shot, but if the transfers weren't very good, then it probably wouldn't work.
Any updates on this ?
Dude, it's only been four days.
Sorry, guys, had a lot going on lately and didn't really find any time to work on this but I'm hoping next week I might make some significant progress. It's really only the subtitles that's slowing the work down, I might make them some simpler way to make them look better than the yellow ones but I don't think I'll be doing them in AE after all... Oh, and I forgot to thank msycamore publically for the help with the subtitles, so thanks :-)
Harmy are you close to a release date?
STILL MISSING SCOTLAND, OH FLOWER OF SCOTLAND DAH DAHHH DAH DAHHHHHHHHH DA.
I'm really sorry and I feel ashamed for making you wait so long but I've been really busy with uni and stuff so no, I didn't finish the restoration and there's only very little left to do actually (basically only the subtitles) but I just couldn't find the time, and frankly the will, to do it. The work on the subs is simply boring as hell :-( I'm hoping to get it done after exams in January.
Harmy said:
Oh, and I forgot to thank msycamore publically for the help with the subtitles, so thanks :-)
No need for that. ;) And yes, subtitling is very boring. Making regular subtitle-streams are even worse imo.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
OK, guys, merry x-mas. Here in the Czech Republic, the baby Jesus brings us presents and he brings them in the evening of 24th December after dinner. And so, in the evening, I'll hopefully have finished uploading the first encode of the final version as a Christmas present for you. It will be only a 700MB mp4 but of course the final DVD will follow in a few days.
As I am in PAL region, the PAL version will definitely come first. Actually, if someone'd like to convert the PAL version to NTSC for me, it would make me very happy.
Harmy said:Actually, if someone'd like to convert the PAL version to NTSC for me, it would make me very happy.
As long as it's a straight forward conversion -- i.e. it doesn't present the problems that Returning to Jedi presented -- I'll do it. Thank you for the Christmas present. :-)
Thank you, Chewtobacca, I appreciate it, I have no experience with PAL to NTSC DVD conversion and frankly, no interest in learning. It should be a straight forward conversion though, one film, no menu.
OK, now, tell me who is interested in the mp4 (the quality is surprisingly good for 700MB and the resolution is full anamorphic, not as good as a DVD but better than your average DVD rip) so I can start sending links as soon as it's uploaded :-)
Unsurprisingly, I am! :-D