Let it be known, I prefer the OUT. That was a change that I thought worked and liked, but I could have lived without.
I had completely forgotten about the redub of Boba's voice. It was the one unforgivable thing on the 04 ESB DVD. I don't want to think about Jango Fett when watching ESB!
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
When a small child i watched the Star Wars movies to death (then i discovered the Alien movies aged 9) even as a small child Star Wars had an impact on me and the magic of it made my imagineation run wild. Even though i'm an Alien Trilogy fan Star Wars was always there with me, right untill 1997. The Special editions ruined the Star Wars experience i knew and loved from a small child, the magic was gone, the scenes that gave me goosebumps had gone and the ovberall impact of the films had just died. Since that day i completely lost all love for the Star Wars movies, lol, to put it in a weird example it was like being told Santa Clause didn't excist. All i had after that was the memories of watching the originals was a child. I for years i pushed aside Star Wars (thanks george) which wa pushed even further when the dreaded prequels arrived. I can never express how angry i am at George if i'm honest, (same with fox for the AVP moves!!!!!)...it wasn't untill i watched Deleted Magic, Building an Empire and Returning to Jedi that my love for the Originals began to rekindle. I know many people who became distant from the Star Wars films thanks to the Special editions, some love them many hate them. But even though they are here to stay *pukes* places like this keep the spirit of the originals alive. The special editions were not needed at all, only thing that was needed was the negative restoration IMO.
JediMasterFisher said:
omg your wrong I can't even watch the old verson of A New Hope because it's visually terriable. Thank God for the SE and even more for Adywans edit.
I wouldn't go that far, but so far I've got to agree that Adywan's version at present is my definitive version of ANH. I am not against the idea of the Special Editions, and many of the enhancements and additions I appreciated, such as the new effects and the Biggs scene. However, Greedo shooting first, and the annoying radar blips during the Millennium Falcon battle irritate me to no end, which is why I'm glad that we have Adywan's version to change these flaws back and to make further enhancements that Lucas overlooked the possibility of (or lacked the time and/or resources to do).
1Shouta said:
Reaction to certain scenes:
A New Hope:
"Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough": Anakin didn't even know he had a son...
Jabba/Han scene: I imagined Han's boss to be a bit...different
Luke's falcon training: Isn't he supposed to have a blue lightsaber?
Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader: Wonder why Obi-Wan calls him, "Darth"...
Empire Strikes Back:
Luke & Leia kiss: Wait, didn't Padme name her babies Luke & Leia?
Yoda's appearance: Did...is Yoda on drugs or something? And his voice got...heavier
Cloud City entrance: I seriously doubt that this scene was in the original version...
Vader/Emperor scene: Palpatine looks exactly the same as he did in Episode III. Don't people age?
"I am your father": I already suspected this in either one of the movies since it's probably the most heard quote
Return Of The Jedi:
Jabba's appearance: *just realizes that Episode I had Jabba* Alright, Episode IV CG Jabba officially sucks. This is much better.
Leia says she remembers her mother: BULL. SHIT.
Palpatine's appearance: He looks like he lost weight compared to Episode III & V...
Unmasking scene: If Anakin was burned, why does he only have burn marks on the side of his cheek?
Anakin/Obi-Wan/Yoda final scene: Why is Anakin just looking around everywhere?
My dad's reaction to the final scene: Who's that guy on the left?
Now typing this out helps me see why the PT kinda ruined the OT.
Obi-Wan is lying to Luke about his father wanting him to have the lightsabre. Perfectly understandable in the context of what we know now. And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect? It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet.
Whatever you think you see in Ian's performance in ESB, he is actually wearing different makeup than what he wears in ROTS. Believe me, I originally thought it was the same but it really isn't.
And those burn marks on Anakin's head in the unmasking? The entire back of his head is burned; totally consistent with what we see in ROTS.
For me, far from ruining it, the PT actually enriches and deepens the OT.
To answer the question where the SE versions needed? Of course not.
Look, we watch films like Jason And The Argonauts these days and we acknowledge that with today's technology certain effects would be more convincing. But those people did the best with what they had at the time - indeed, they excelled with what they had at the time. Exactly the same with Star Wars.
I think when an artist has created something, it should be taken away from them. Because the true artist is never truly happy with what they create. They are always striving to better themselves; it's what keeps them trying, and it's what makes them better than so many mediocre artists who are happy to churn out substandard product.
Easterhay said:
Obi-Wan is lying to Luke about his father wanting him to have the lightsabre. Perfectly understandable in the context of what we know now. And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect? It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet.
I call bullshit on this. When star wars was written darth vader was not Lukes father and Obi Wan indeed told the truth. Empire was the first of many retcons to the saga. In the original backstory kenobi had two pupils Skywalker and Vader.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
Easterhay said:
Obi-Wan is lying to Luke about his father wanting him to have the lightsabre. Perfectly understandable in the context of what we know now. And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect? It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet.
This is a joke, right?
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
Easterhay said:
Obi-Wan is lying to Luke about his father wanting him to have the lightsabre. Perfectly understandable in the context of what we know now. And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect? It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet.
This is a joke, right?
You'll know when I'm joking.
Watch A New Hope. Watch Alec Guinness's reaction to Luke's question. It's eerie that, although there was no way Alec could've known the backstory, his reaction is exactly the one that someone would give if they were about to lie.
skyjedi2005 said:
Easterhay said:
Obi-Wan is lying to Luke about his father wanting him to have the lightsabre. Perfectly understandable in the context of what we know now. And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect? It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet.
I call bullshit on this. When star wars was written darth vader was not Lukes father and Obi Wan indeed told the truth. Empire was the first of many retcons to the saga. In the original backstory kenobi had two pupils Skywalker and Vader.
You may call what you want, pottymouth, but if this is what you believe then you don't know half of what you think you do.
Easterhay said:
And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect? It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet.
Absolutely. George must've had some small inkling about what to do with Luke's dad (not sure if Anakin came at that time. It was almost Alec had seen Sith, even though he (obviously) didn't.
We watched it as a family yesterday and it's always a scene that astounds me.
Anakin Starkiller was originally the father of the twins in one of many original drafts. It's funny how some fans pull up on Lucas's constant revisions to his story before settling on one version - do these people honestly think that when they pick up a book in a bookshop that the copy they are holding is the first draft of that story?
I guess you have not read the secret history of star wars.
Or read old interviews where Lucas stated that Skywalker battled Vader above a pit of lava and was killed.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
Easterhay, I think you've been dippin' way too deep into the kool-aid!
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
Easterhay said:
Obi-Wan is lying to Luke about his father wanting him to have the lightsabre. Perfectly understandable in the context of what we know now. And isn't the way Alec Guinnes paused before replying to the question "How did my father die?" just perfect? It's as though Lucas had told him the backstory on the quiet.
Whatever you think you see in Ian's performance in ESB, he is actually wearing different makeup than what he wears in ROTS. Believe me, I originally thought it was the same but it really isn't.
And those burn marks on Anakin's head in the unmasking? The entire back of his head is burned; totally consistent with what we see in ROTS.
For me, far from ruining it, the PT actually enriches and deepens the OT.
I'm sorry but you are so wrong. Anakin & Vader were 2 completely separate characters when ANH was being filmed. He didn't decide to combine the two characters until writing the story for ESB. He then had to try and explain Obi-Wans original conversation in ROTJ with the lame "point of view" explanation.
Again when you see Vader unmasked in ESB & ROTJ they are two different types of scaring. In ESB GL was toying with the idea of Vader being a mutant with radiation burns. A production sketch exists showing Vader without the mask and as a mutant. This sketch matches how we see him in ESB.
In ROTJ all he had was 2 scars, no burning at all. So it is in no way consistent with what we see in ROTS
And as for Ian in the 2004 Version of ESB, that is the same make-up as he wore in ROTS. It is exactly the same and was filmed during ROTS. Can you provide the proof that backs up your claims that it was different make-up?
The PT screws with the OT and certainly doesn't deepen and enrich it. All the surprise revelations have been destroyed. If you watch the films in numerical order then we already know that Vader is Lukes Dad, that Leia is Lukes sister, that the little green alien Luke meets is Yoda and so on. Totally destroyed their original impact and the scenes almost become meaningless.
True, that viewing experience will be forever altered when watching the films in numerical order. However, I don't care how the number goes, the prequels aren't meant to come first. The OT explains what the Force is and gives other exposition that the PT lacks. The OT was meant to be watched first.
Here's the way a newbie should watch, if you ask me: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. Each movie brings out something new in that sequencing. Plus, you could see a little more easily and clearly the mirroring of structure and other things from the OT in the PT that way.
Yes, I realize the forum I'm on, a lot of you will probably say the best way to watch the saga is 4, 5, 6 and nothing else. That's cool too, just wanted to toss this out there.
All I really want is each film as it was originally seen and heard in theaters; no fixes, corrections, "improvements" or modifications necessary.
"4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6" is one of the best things I learned from this board. I even wrote a song about it (ok, its not a song at all).thecolorsblend said:
True, that viewing experience will be forever altered when watching the films in numerical order. However, I don't care how the number goes, the prequels aren't meant to come first. The OT explains what the Force is and gives other exposition that the PT lacks. The OT was meant to be watched first.
Here's the way a newbie should watch, if you ask me: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. Each movie brings out something new in that sequencing. Plus, you could see a little more easily and clearly the mirroring of structure and other things from the OT in the PT that way.
Yes, I realize the forum I'm on, a lot of you will probably say the best way to watch the saga is 4, 5, 6 and nothing else. That's cool too, just wanted to toss this out there.
Star Wars Revisited Wordpress
Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress
Easterhay said:
We watched it as a family yesterday and it's always a scene that astounds me.
Anakin Starkiller was originally the father of the twins in one of many original drafts. It's funny how some fans pull up on Lucas's constant revisions to his story before settling on one version - do these people honestly think that when they pick up a book in a bookshop that the copy they are holding is the first draft of that story?
It was actually Kane Starkiller that was the father of twins. Annikin Starkiller was actually the son, who was later renamed Luke. The thread of a father with multiple sons and then the father dying was a part of the story from early on, but this is completely different from what Lucas implies was "always" there.
In the first treatment, the story is about a master-student relationship between an older Jedi and his young student. The treatment doesn't seem to have been completed. The second treatment is a remake of Hidden Fortress, about a General's mission to escort a princess through hostile galactic territory, with a duo of idiotic bureaucrats. This was expanded into the rough draft, where the General was broken up into two people, one being General Skywalker as per the treatment, and the other being Kane Starkiller, who has a son named Annikin that he is training. The duo of bureacrats was converted into a duo of robots. Lucas also added two villains, a General Darth Vader and a Sith Lord Valorum, plus an Emperor Cos Dashit.
So, as you can, yes, the earliest scripts were even way more different than Lucas tells. But Lucas also says that the basic story of the whole trilogy was included in these scripts, which isn't true at all. ESB he made up by the seat of his pants in 1977 and 1978. He had to have Leigh Brackett confer with him on the plot, because he didn't reall have anything. So I would say you shouldn't be too hard on people that doubt Lucas' accuracy here. They are right.
I wouldn't say the SE wasn't needed, just most of what was given to us wasn't.
We could do without the CGI (sorry Ady but not a big fan of your new f/x in revisited either, love all the other changes though), but enhancing what's already there a la hoth battle is fine.
I love the original Yavin battle as it reminds me of everything I love about starwars, the impact it had on a 6 year old at the time is obliterated by frankly common and nothing special cgi. The superb model work done by those guys is part of what made it great and gives the films technology its gritty used look.
The only things in ANH that ever botherd me from its home video release in the 80's were,
Vaders white sabre after his battle with Obi-wan,
R5 being back at the crawler after he leaves,(actually did the SE even change that? seen so many versions now)
The line "close the blast doors" missing,
A something I would personally like to see changed is Obi-wan calling Anakin Darth during their final battle. I think it deserves a more personnal acknowledgement between them, "You can't win Anakin" re-affirms his previous loss and lava ordeal, along with "Only a master of evil Anakin" would fit eerily well after the child killing scenes in ROTS (along with all the other evil stuff he's probably been up to since then).
To anyone who thinks the "Vader is Luke's father" business was part of the "plan" all along:
I just finished reading the first draft of ESB (by Leigh Brackett). It is made abundantly clear in that draft that Vader and Luke's father are two different people, and that Vader definitely killed Luke's father as part of the whole hunting-down-and-destroying-the-Jedi thing.
So yeah, the Vader-as-Luke's-father thing was thought up during the writing of ESB, not before.
And the Leia-as-Luke's-sister thing was thought up during the writing of ROTJ (though much earlier in the writing of that film than the father thing in ESB). That came into being when Lucas changed his mind about making Episodes VII-IX, which were to revolve around Luke searching for his long-lost sister. He now had one movie to wrap up the "There is another" plot point instead of four.
For those who call "bullshit" on that based on Leia hearing Luke's call at the end of ESB - Luke was specifically calling out to her. If he'd called out to Lando instead, Lando would have heard him, too. But Luke didn't know Lando at this point, he can't make a Force connection with a robot, and he can't speak Chewie's language, so Leia was pretty much his only option.
Alec Guiness' hesitation while explaining Luke's father's history, I feel, was just Alec trying to express how much that story pains Obi-Wan to tell. It took on the extra meaning of Obi-Wan lying once Vader became Luke's father, and it was just a happy accident that that hesitation was there.
Chirtman said:
A something I would personally like to see changed is Obi-wan calling Anakin Darth during their final battle. I think it deserves a more personnal acknowledgement between them, "You can't win Anakin" re-affirms his previous loss and lava ordeal, along with "Only a master of evil Anakin" would fit eerily well after the child killing scenes in ROTS (along with all the other evil stuff he's probably been up to since then).
That would be disastrous, as it would make no sense unless the viewer saw the prequels before seeing SW.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
Changing Obi-wans line to Anakin would of course just be a matter of personal preference, without the PT i'd agree with you but in the context of the whole saga, from the viewers perspective, a lot of the OT doesn't make sense.
Vaders reveal in ESB will sadly be a surprise i think to very few individuals ever again.
Obi-wan's subtle reveal hints to the audience what we already know and what he wasn't ready to tell Luke. His current dialogue makes less sense if viewing 1-6 in order (perhaps he forgot his name he seems to have forgotten R2 and threepio!), but whether better or worse hardly disastrous.
Are you sure you're on the right forum?
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
Easterhay said:
Because the true artist is never truly happy with what they create. They are always striving to better themselves; it's what keeps them trying
Now be honest: If Fox owned Star Wars and Lucas would never see any money from working on the special editions except minimum wage and a turkey sandwich, AND they told him he had to fly down to LA. to supervise the animation, would this true artist still do it?
Easterhay said:
I think when an artist has created something, it should be taken away from them. Because the true artist is never truly happy with what they create. They are always striving to better themselves; it's what keeps them trying, and it's what makes them better than so many mediocre artists who are happy to churn out substandard product.
Bull. A true artist knows that it's best to leave something alone once it's finished and never go back to it because there is always the chance that you'll fuck it up. A true artist will move onto the next project and develop their talent this way. Going over the same thing again and again destroys the artists creativity and this creativity then becomes stale