Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 93

I like this idea-- the pay-off should be that it was Dukoo posing as Qui Gon. At least that's a mystery with some intrigue for the audience and maybe we could be left to put it together ourselves that Dukoo was using his apprentice's name. It would add interest to the Obi Wan/Dukoo meeting.

If no fancy footwork can make Obi Wan say "Master Jinn was killed nearly ten years ago" then that line can be cut-- Obi Wan's surprise could easily keep him from interjecting that rather unnecessary info anyway.

Sy-dious made sense to me since it really is Sidious' plan. I imagined that, as a Sith, he could pose convincingly as a Jedi.  But throwing Qui Gonn's name in here is more visceral. It makes the stakes feel personal for Obi Wan. He has to get to the bottom of this for personal reasons as well as for the council.

Interesting idea. Would be more difficult to implement than the "Sy-dias" solution though. Unfortunately, the actor who played Lama-Su was an adolescent whose voice has completely changed over the last few years. I don't believe he recorded any lines containing the name "Qui-Gon". So either that exchange would have to be cut (which would be too bad), or Lama-Su would probably have to be redubbed. Second thing- we would need Dooku to reveal that he had been posing as Qui-Gon. Sluggo can do a spot on Christopher Lee voice (and already contributed to the project). If we could figure out what line was needed and in what scene (probably Dooku's first conversation with the captive Obi-Wan), then I could ask him about the possibility of recording it.

Rats. Well... If we actually need Dukoo to reveal his masquerade then the only place he can do it is in the end when he meets Sidious. Otherwise, he's tipping his hand too soon and to the wrong people. The only one who should know he's  playing both sides is Sidious.

Thanks for considering it, TM!

^^That's a good idea which could even work with the current Sydias solution.  

Palpatine: "Welcome home, Lord Tyrannus."

Dooku: "How do you do....Master SYDIAS.  Hahaha...." (his laugh echoes in the hangar bay)

Then continue as scripted.  

That would certainly clear things up.  

It's good to see all the old faces again!

I have to say, I REALLY like the idea of replacing Sifo Dias with Qui Gon. If there's any way to pull this off, I think we should do it - even if it comes to new dialog for lama su.

This way, the scene with Dooku interrogating Obi Wan becomes much more meaningful. We start to doubt if we knew the real Qui Gon, and we will wonder if he ordered the clones. Only at the very end, when we see that Dooku is a Sith, can we assume that Dooku posed as his former master to place the clone order.

I agree that some kind of payoff is needed.

Sluggo might be able to add some lines at the end when Dooku is talking to Palpatine. Something along the lines of "I bring you good news, my Lord. After ordering the clones, the war has begun." It needs finessing, but something like that. This way, the audience learns that Dooku ordered the clones. But the Jedi do not (not that the original movie is any better in that regard - that subplot is such a mess).

Let's also not forget that Christopher Lee did the voice of Dooku in the Clone Wars animated movie. Some dialog might be able to be lifted from that.

Yeah, it's great when other audio sources are available like that, especially done by the original actor as the character. Doesn't always happen that way.

OMG i didnt think my idea of Dooku posing as Qui Gon would go down so well!

The pay off is the trick.

If Dukoo could announce in the end "It was me, posing as my apprentice, who ordered the clones" then it would be perfect. Right?

How about:

During Dukoo's long walk down the ramp toward Sidious.

Dukoo: "My old apprentice's last gift has paid off. The clones I ordered in his name are now operational, Master Sidious."

Sidious: "Welcome home, Lord Tyrannus. You have done well."

D: "I have good news for you, my Lord. The war has begun."

S: "Excellent. Everything is going as planned." 

MTHaslett said:

Dukoo: "My old apprentice's last gift has paid off. The clones I ordered in his name are now operational, Master Sidious." 

 This could work...although, this particular line is too wordy. I think making it more simple...

Dooku: The clones I ordered in Qui-Gon's name are now operational, Master Sidious.

Something like that...?

Dooku talking while on the ramp might work. MTHaslett's dialog looks good if it will fit the length of the scene.

^^Wow.  If it could work, that would actually make Qui-Gon really central to the whole trilogy, and would explain the clones.  

Sluggo said:

Ok, my ears are burning.  I'm happy to help once we get a line nailed down.

Great!  I'm really glad to hear this.  I've also heard back from Nanner Split, who dubbed Lama-Su.  

He would be happy to do a new dub, but it'll be until August until he gets access to high quality equipment again.

Which leaves...Jar-Jar.

I love Concierge's idea-- but the pay off has to be clear: Qui Gonn's purposes were noble-- he was NOT a Sith or a collaborator with Sidious. So Dukoo/Tyrannus needs to call Qui Gonn a useful fool whose idealism let him be used.

It's a really strong idea in that it fits perfectly with his over-the-top faith in Annakin. Qui-Gonn's maverick attitudes are more in line with what's really at stake than Yoda's. However, acting alone, Qui-Gonn does more directly than any other Jedi to aid Sidious. Though Dukoo organizes the separatists, Qui-Gonn finds Anakin, takes him from his mother, makes him a Jedi, orders the clones, and helps make Palpatine the Chancellor. Compared to Qui Gonn, Dukoo's a piker.

I only wish we could add a scene where Sidious and Dukoo go down to the lab to see Sidious creating Grievous out of the barely alive Darth Maul.

I really like were this discussion has been heading. It feels like Qui-gon was kinda of a sure thing when George was making the prequels, he needs to be an important character after death just the way Obi one was in the original trilogy; but now heard of but not seen directly.

And I'm glad your back to this TM, I share the enthusiasm of MTHaslett, but I'm sure you knew that. About cutting the bar shot of the smoke rising....I would definitely not cut it. I do not at all feel like you compromised the feel of star wars. It feels...old....it just feels right, obviously I don't have the right words, but I would hate to see it go.

I'll add my small voice to Josh's about that smoke-rising shot. It feels very conclusive to me-- allowing that scene to end in a way that's visually poetic. That's something the OT did much better than the PT. (I'll even go so far as to say I like the ceiling shot in the meeting with Dukoo-- I just think we hold on it for a beat too long.)

But Concierge-- where did you get this idea? It's great!

Your idea makes the Maul role cooler than it's ever been. It makes Qui Gonn more important. It pulls the PT together with one small change.  I really hope we can pull this off.