Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 92

I agree. Without the rest of the Starkiller Ranch prequels, the 3PO change may not work. This edit should be able to work as a stand-alone edit. And Jar Jar's new accent still can't hide the inherent goofiness in his movements. So let's just have less of him.

My only other suggestion for what needs improvement is the use of Dune footage during the battle. It stood out too much for me.

I think SOME Dune footage really works to open the battle up beyond the original mass of missiles going -----> and then <-------- and then >x<!! In its current form, with ID4 elements in there too, I think the whole battle isn't quite what it will be.

Transforming that battle into something coherent is like taking hamburger and trying to reshape it into a cow.

I think finishing the battle (without getting into shot-by-shot advice) might be a matter of "less is more".  When the one trooper says "this battle is over before it's even begun" I think that says it all. Then the clones can demonstrate their ass-kicking ability and we move on. That's about all the coherent information available in all that footage. Everything else is just cg weapons blowing each other up.

All we really care about at that point is getting Dukoo.

MTHaslett!  Glad you are back!  I always look forward to your postings.  You were a major driving force behind this.  

You know, I loved Owen's crack about 3PO not being able to speak Bocce, and I liked 3PO's introductory scene, but I agree that it just doesn't work.  

What I want now is just for this to look as smooth and professional as possible.  Innovation is fine as long as it doesn't stick out like a a sore thumb.  

And with the 3PO scene and the following scene with Owen, it was a great experiment, but ultimately it's going too far because it is so far removed from what that scene originally was.  Given the footage that we have, I agree that the scenes should be reverted basically back to the way they were, sans "Master Annie!" and other poor lines here and there.  

Jar-Jar....I really don't know.  I liked the voice in my workprint...he seems so lovably stupid...but it does not seem to blend in.  We could try an alien voice, but I really want to avoid running foreign language tracks backwards if possible...it was the only weak point in MagnoliaFan's fantastic cut of Episode I.  

And remember, whatever the solution is should be able to extend to Episode I.  Remember that Jar-Jar is a main character in Episode I for better or worse.  Could be a lot of subtitles....

I guess I should watch this again so I can remember what you guys are talking about. :)

Here is a tentative list of some of the big changes for this final cut.  Mr. Ben is helping me on a lot of this, and I can't thank him enough....

-New color grading and better grain throughout 

-There were a couple of transitions that didn't work.  These are fixed.  

-Boba's voice will be reverted back to the original

-A new and evenly balanced sound mix.  

-Replacement of the over-familiar music cues from "Raiders", if I can find suitable replacements 

-Mace's saber will be blue throughout.  

-Dune and ID4 shots MAY be replaced with brand new FX (no further details yet).  

-Mas Amedda's voice will be redone.  

-The smoke shot after the nightclub scene and the ceiling shot at the beginning of the Dooku/Padme interrogation scenes are cut.  (I was corrupting the Star Wars feel with my own preferences)

-Anakin will be completely redone.  My speech is far clearer and my acting ability significantly better than it was in 2005.  Additionally, I would welcome anyone else who'd like to give it a shot.  

The way I'm doing the sound mix now, I've actually organized it so that swapping out actors and voice tracks will not take much time at all.  

-Something will be done about the "disappearing Anakin" glitch in the Yoda/Dooku confrontation.

That's just off the top of my head.  There are, of course, some other small changes.  

Bad news: This isn't the only project I have going this summer.  I have another one involving music, that will have an effect on my school and my early career.  So when it comes down to that versus this, I have to prioritize that.  

Good news: I have help now.  Not to say I haven't had help before.  So many have contributed to this.  A user from 5 years ago ("Rebel1138) designed the opening crawl.  MTHaslett reworked the love story.  Sluggo contributed lots of voices.  Adywan built some new FX shots.....And reading these most recent comments this year, it would really be a crime not to complete this.  It will be done.  

Also, I have a new computer system, a ton of hard drive space, and the new, faster Lagarith codec to work with.  Before I was editing off of the native MPEG files. Extremely slow, extremely frustrating, and I was cutting it on a slow computer to begin with.  

So things are looking pretty good.  I don't want to promise anything, but if I can get Jar-Jar and Mas Amedda figured out (Mas Amedda only has a couple of lines), then I think Ben and I will have all of the ingredients we need to make a good final cut of this movie!

-TM

Hey TJ! Hey Erik!  

Remember that with the 3PO story, in the rough cut, 3PO stays in the ship.  R2 rolls over to the panel and saves Padme from the furnace, and then we forget about him.  

Replacing the original dialogue (indicating that Anakin built 3PO) would not change any of that.  There is no way I am reinstating that head-swapping fiasco...

It's just a question of a good story overall.  I would prefer it if everything weren't so closely-knit.  Yoda knew Chewbacca.  Darth Vader built C3PO.  Etc. Etc.  

But for the question of 3PO, I don't see an effective workaround given available footage.

Erik also has a good point, that being that changing 3PO back to Anakin's droid brings the story back into line with both the official movies and with all of the other edits.  

If no other edits are done in this series, trying to fit this movie with the other movies would create a glaring inconsistency.

Thanks, Trooperman-- you have been as flexible and cooperative on this board as I've ever seen anyone. I like the bocce line too, I really want you to get everything you want for this edit. But the internal logic of Anakin taking an extra droid on his mission to save Obi Wan is too odd to be smoothed over in a couple side-remarks. I loved the original idea of getting rid of Threepio from ep 1. But having him show up here randomly isn't really optimal either.

I will try to look at the original 3p0 reunion scene again. I think there might be a way to go for the "really cool version" considering how much more interesting Anakin is in this edit. I would love if this scene could just not interrupt that awesomeness.

I never knew Magfan's Jar Jar was a foreign track played backward-- I guess that might bother me the next time I see it. However, I totally enjoyed having to read Jar Jar's lines. It allowed his backstory to be molded, made him less dumbed down and more OT.

I think they should have gone for Australian like you did-- letting that culture inform the Gungan design and sound would have made them way more appealing. But trying to mix that in after the fact in Ep2 is tough. There's so little Jar Jar to work with that it does, unfortunately, stand out.

Trooperman said:

If no other edits are done in this series, trying to fit this movie with the other movies would create a glaring inconsistency.

Well, this could be viewed as sort of an alternate version anyway. Don't worry about canon and whatever. I sure don't when it comes to the PT! :p

Anyway, thanks for those nice detailed posts. Take your time with it. I don't think [that one guy that pesters Adywan] follows this thread, so you shouldn't have to worry about people bugging you about when it's going to be done. ;)

P.S. I'm surprised some people didn't notice the Magfan Jar Jar backwards thing. That's one thing that bugged me about his edit, because I knew immediately it was just backwards audio. (which to me, though better than regular Jar Jar [but not better than him gone from the movie], was a pretty lazy way of changing his voice)

Ripplin: [alternate language/reverse tracks] was a pretty lazy way of changing his voice)

***

I'm not happy to find out Jar Jar was reversed-tracked in Magfan's edit because now I won't be quite so immune to noticing that anymore. However, the improvement was vast compared to my original experience of the film [i.e. the removal of the original dialogue and story points-- along with the removed irritation of hearing Jar Jar's childishness in English].

If that method was lazy, what realistic alternatives are there?

Having seen both Magfan's edit and the alternate English track in SOTDS, I have to say I prefer the distraction of subtitles to the distraction of that animated character spouting recognizable words in an unfamiliar voice.

How can we get a believable new alien voice, well-matched to Jar Jar's performance?

(It's fun to be back here-- hi TJ! hi Erik! hi Benja!)

EDIT: Maybe I would like the voice Trooperman is using if I had an Episode 1 with that voice to go along with it. That is definitely part of my problem-- I don't consider SOTDS to be "alternative", but definitive. I want there to be a way to foresee this fitting with other edits of the other 2 prequels.

Wow! I'm gone for a few days and look what happens! :D

Very exciting news here, Trooperman! I might throw an idea or two your way here and there. It's funny because as soon as I logged on I started uploading this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtLsqjbduaE

I know you've adjusted this scene in your edit but I thought I'd show this to you and see what you think.  :)

The Concierge said:

Something that bothered me (one of very, *very* few things, mind you), is the whole "Jedi Master Si-dyas(or whatever)"...now, I understand the inherent problem of "Sifo-dyas", but in this case, are we meant to take that there literally was a Master Sidious? Was he *the* Sidious posing as a Jedi? Obi-wan's line suggesting past knowledge of this person keeps this bugging me....If it's meant simply to be a Jedi with a name similar to the Sith's, it seems not to be an improvement over 'Sifo Dyas'...a completely different-sounding name may be better...or perhaps (more like, almost certainly) I'm missing the point... 

 I think the name should of been Qui Gon. Dooku poses as his own apprentice.

INTERIOR: TIPOCA CITY, PRIME MINISTER OFFICE - DAY

The door slides open. OBI-WAN and TAUN WE enter and cross
to where LAMA SU rises, smiling, from his chair, which,
like all the furniture on Kamino, seems made out of pure
light.

TAUN WE: May I present Lama Su, Prime Minister of Kamino...
and this is Master Jedi...

OBI-WAN: Obi-Wan Kenobi.

LAMA SU indicates a chair. OBI-WAN remains standing. TAUN
WE hovers. The room is bathed in brilliant white light. The
whole place is ultra high-tech.

LAMA SU: I trust you are going to enjoy your stay. We are
most happy you have arrived at the best part of the season.

OBI-WAN: You make me feel most welcome.

LAMA SU: Please... (gestures to chair) And now to business.
You will be delighted to hear we are on schedule. Two
hundred thousand units are ready, with another million well
on the way.

OBI-WAN: (improvising) That is... good news.

LAMA SU: Please tell your Master Jinn that we have
every confidence his order will be met on time and in full.
He is well, I hope.

OBI-WAN: I'm sorry? Master - ?

LAMA SU: Jedi Master Qui Gon Jinn. He's still a leading member
of the Jedi Council, is he not?

OBI-WAN: Master Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago.

LAMA SU: Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. But I'm sure he
would have been proud of the army we've built for him.

OBI-WAN: The army?

LAMA SU: Yes, a clone army. And, I must say, one of the
finest we've ever created.

OBI-WAN: Tell me, Prime Minister, when my Master first
contacted you about the army, did he say who it was for?

LAMA SU: Of course he did. This army is for the Republic.
But you must be anxious to inspect the units for yourself.

OBI-WAN: That's why I'm here.

OBI-WAN and LAMA SU rise and walk toward the door.

This brings up questions, was Qui Gon behind it? Why would Qui Gon order an army? Did Qui Gon want to train Anakin for good, or for bad? I think it adds so much more.