Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 269

Hey folks,

I'm a long time appreciator of the fan edits, and just recently started perusing the forums here.

I appreciate the ability to offer our wishlists, and I hope that Ady will consider mine as well.  Since I just recently watched some ROTJ material, I guess I will start there since it is freshest in my mind.

1. Opening scene.  Perhaps it would make more sense to have Vader leaving Executor in a Shuttle to the second Death Star, rather than a standard Imperial-Class Star Destroyer?  Also, the matte boxes around the ships need to be cleaned up, obviously.  As well as the matte paintings themselves.  They look too cartoony by modern standards.

2. In Jabba's Palace.  The B'Ommar Monk could use some additional articulation.  The infamous reverse shot of Boba pulling his blaster needs to be addressed.  Numerous creatures could use some tweaking to bring them to life.

3. Jabba's Sail Barge and Skiffs.  If they could be given a little more life and not look so static, that would be great.  Raising the Barge set from the ground would be good, as well as removing the bars that hold up the Skiff.  If they could look more like they are actually floating!  Also, it might be a good idea to add an extended overhead post with the rope hanging from it to all of the shots of the Barge, so it would make sense instead of just showing up for Luke and Leia to swing across.  Accurate blaster bolts, visible damage, and accurate lightsaber blade rotoscoping would be great as well.

4. Fixing the transparency of the Falcon and Luke's X-Wing as they leave Tatooine.

5. The Battle of Endor.  So, so many mistakes and things needing to be fixed.  Matte boxes, ships flying through each other, appearing from nowhere, disappearing, etc.  I'm sure Ady knows his work is cut out for him here.  I also suggest that the battle be extended, made more intense, and that THE B-WINGS BE ALLOWED TO FINALLY SHINE.  Their ion cannons and numerous other weapons are designed for assaulting and knocking out Star Destroyers, so now let's see it!  Since the B-Wing design was hard to shoot with 1980's tech, there is no excuse now to put them back into the battle.  Even as a kid I wondered what happened to those ships after their S-foils opened.

6. Endor.  The AT-ST's, Speederbikes, all of it need serious work.  If we could somehow have more violence to bring down the Stormies in a more realistic way, instead of like punks!  The go-motion and matte work needs serious fixing.  When Luke says "I'll take these two" the audio is out of sync.  Maybe an establishing shot of Rebel troops helping the Ewoks build and set their AT-ST traps for believability.

7. Aboard the Death Star.  The matte paintings of the troops are just terrible in this age of HD and higher resolution expectations from the audience.  The black, hand animated blobs on the Emperor's face must be removed.  The incorrect crossing of the lightsaber blades in front of the Emperor's face must be addressed.  Vader's blade is actually in FRONT of Luke's, which would not have stopped Luke's from slicing into the Emperor.  The starfields outside ALL of the windows must be fixed.  The stars are not properly focused, and they jog back and forth.  These must be stabilized, as well as moving in the proper direction according to each shot.  The squibbed and slightly crooked rail can be seen before Luke's blade cuts through it, ruining the impact of the shot.  There is also a moment when Force lightning leaves the Emperor's hands before they jerk from the recoil.  Then of course there are the matte boxes around the ships flying into the Death Star, also creating terrible discoloration around the ships as well.

I guess that's it for now.  I hope this wasn't too soap boxy and actually helps things.  :)

My main problem with the matte paintings is that they have no depth of field.  Like when Han & Lando are standing in hangar bay - it's an entirely flat background.  There should be layers of objects out of focus behind them.  I would imagine it would be as easy as isolating different objects in that background into separate layers (if it's as simple as it is in Photoshop), and utilize progressive blurring (or similar) effects.  I would hope that this is something Ady is also fixing in ESB:R.

-NJM

^^^100% agreed.  In the Hoth Hangar, as well as the Falcon in the Han/Lando shot.  There is not even a hint of the backgrounds having more than one dimension and it would be nice to have the level of realism that we have all come to expect from such shots.

I posted this elsewhere but in the fun fanfilm parody The Invisible Enemy they added ring modulation to the Ewok voices which actually sounded a bit creepy (even when they were trying to be funny).

Oh yeah, a couple more things for Ady to consider for ROTJ.

Maybe a shot or two of ships arriving at a location and rotating to right themselves with the planetary system they arrive at.  I find it hard to believe that every single time someone goes from one end of the galaxy to the other, their vessel is straight up and down with the planets and such.

And here's a big one that really chaps my hind quarters.  The music has a "flanging" effect during the Emperor's arrival.  I have always been aggravated by this and would love to hear it fixed!

For TESB....

Remove the TIE Fighters from the shot where the Imperial fleet arrives at Hoth.  TIE's don't have hyperdrives, and it doesn't make sense to have them appear from behind the Star Destroyers.  They don't look natural in the shot anyway and are a distraction.  Plus, the TIE's aren't in any other shot around Hoth.  Perhaps a shot of them launching from under the Star Destroyers would be better, then they could be sent out to intercept the Rebel ships coming into their sector.

Hi there JediTray (love that avatar and can't wait for the series to return).

Just a gentle reminder that this isn't exclusively a Ady thread ( Ady pops in here now and then as witnessed above) but it's a general ideas thread for ROTJ and ESB there is quite a bit of ROTJ stuff in here largely because Ady hasn't finished ESB:R and hasn't started a ROTJ:R thread yet but if you have any ESB:R ideas pop them over onto that thread to make sure that they get seen.

I personally don't see a problem with the TIEs in that Hoth shot because going from Vader's description of Ozzel's deployment of the fleet (too close to the system) the fleet jumped in outside the system but close enough to be detected.

That would give the pilots enough time to scramble to the fighter bay and launch in readiness of any fighter trying a break out or attempting to engage the invading forces as they approached the planet (so no need for the fighters to have been in hyperspace).

Maybe predictive orientation is part of the Nav Computer calculations so coming in pointing the right way would be automatic on all situations, assuming there is a right way in space...

In the Star Wars universe (a few instances aside) the convention seems to be a stacked version of maritime travel. That seems to be the stylistic approach chosen (possibly to be in line with the Sinbad in space nature of the series).

Other space operas take a more 'realistic' approach but they tend to be the less fantasy driven ones with a thicker veneer of Science Fiction about them.

Bingowings said:

Other space operas take a more 'realistic' approach but they tend to be the less fantasy driven ones with a thicker veneer of Science Fiction about them.

That's why Star Wars should be considered science fantasy instead of science fiction.  Space opera is the more usual term people use, but it's important not to compare the fantastical science of Star Wars with something more clinically scientific like Star Trek.  That's why I don't get the entire Trek vs. Wars clash.  I love them both, but they are of two entirely different molds.

-NJM

Star Trek is almost as fantastical it just hides it with a lot of techno-babble but that's for another thread.

Yeah I agree about ship orientation not being a very big deal in the end, but it would be nice to see things changed up a little.  Although I hate the prequels, the "upside down" arrival at Coruscant in AOTC was kinda nifty.

RoccondilRinon said:

I've often said — Trek is a lot softer sci-fi than it likes to think it is. Star Wars is well aware of how soft it is, most of the time. I tend to prefer things that are squarely on one end of the scale (Star Wars, Doctor Who) or the other (Firefly, 2001), although I do appreciate Star Trek.

I've often said that Doctor Who is (or at least should be when done right) a lot harder science fiction than people give it credit for.

Dimensional transcendentalism, time travel, etc could be easy for a race that's billions of years in advance of out own.

Teleportation and FTL a century away?? I don't think so myself.

Any road up I shan't derail another Star Wars thread with talk of Tardises.

As for those lovely Death Stars if someone were to make a surprise extra Death Star I'd go for something like the one in the to right hand corner (but who would build it kid...you?).

Bingowings said:

In the original treatment for Revenge Of The Jedi there were TWO Death Stars being built as seen in this production painting :

It might also be a fun addition to an alternative version to have Jejerrod being presurred into completing one Death Star (the one the Rebels know about) but the Emperor overseeing the construction of a different Death Star.

The audience is lead to expect that they are the same Death Star until Luke notices when looking out of the window as the station moves that the battlestation he is now on is not the one that the battle is taking place near.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt0c4o4Rr1M

Bypass the opening crawl, and I apologize in advance for the less than perfect after affects work.  I'm no Adywan :(

I'd love to see the idea explored in greater depth it could make ROTJ something much grander than just a retread of themes already played in the OT.

I loved your earlier mockups Angel I wonder what you could do now that you have learned so much more?

I'd still like to keep the second one as a surprise that pops around the corner once the rebels are already caught in the battle trying to destroy the battlestation they know about.

Going by what Needa says in ESB cloaking devices do exist in the Star Wars universe but can't be fitted on small ships maybe the other Death Star is invisible until it needs to open fire.

Never a 007 around when you need one (might be difficult to aim and move without Dalek technology) :