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The Empire Strikes Back "1980 Theatrical version" Reconstruction - Adywan (Released) — Page 13

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 (Edited)

Lord__Vader said:

GhostAlpha26 said:

I haven't seen Ady's Theatrical Reconstruction yet but what shots are in his version that weren't in the original 1980's version?

...

EDIT: Oops, misread the question, Ady's reconstruction is exactly as it was in the 1980 original...

Well..not exactly.

OP:

adywan said:

Now this isn't a 100% true theatrical version as i didn't want to use the low quality GOUT to replace the newly zoomed and cropped cockpit shots that appear in the SE version but all of the SE elements have been removed.

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I told a friend about this version recently and he answered "Why the hell did that guy bother doing it? Wasn't there a DVD version of the OT released which contained the GOUT as a bonus disc?"

I'm not sure about this but I think that "official" GOUT DVD wasn't really of the best quality was it? Something to do with the source...

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The GOUT is a non-anamorphic (it doesn't stretch to fill your HDTV) copy made directly from the files they put on the laserdisc in 1993. It jitters, its blurry, its sad.

This is based on an HD transfer with elements taken either from an upscaled copy of the GOUT or high resolution scans of the original matte paintings.

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Lord__Vader said:

BTW. while making that video I noticed the whole wampa scene is a lot bluer in the reconstruction than the AVCHD. Why's that Ady?

well there is the shot of Luke when he flops down after trying to free his feet which was split into 2 sections for the SE and the problem was that there were about 5 missing frames. I had reconstructed whole this with the missing frames in that shot for ESB:R (and i didn't use the GOUT for the missing frames) so i just downscaled that from 720p to 480p and used the version from revisited, which has more of the blue still intact because i'd stripped a little too much out of the cave scene in the AVCHD. I see you have stripped all of the blue out of that shot in your video.

Now the video on youtube really can't be used to show that you can't really see much of a difference between the low & hi-res sources because of its crappy low bitrates. the artefacts due to youtubes very low bitrate compression masks a lot of the detail in a HD video so the transition wouldn't be as noticeable.  The scene you want to try is the Lando announcement one, but not just place the shots that were blended together in but actually start by using a HD source for the transition. Then you really do notice a huge jump in quality. Plus you will see the problems i went through with trying to match the HD to the GOUT so i could blend in certain element because there is so much frame distortion between the two its just not a simple thing like join the two together.

And both the AVCHD & this theatrical version were never pretending to be 100% accurate versions which is why i left the "Han's shirt" shot alone. I might change this if i do decide to do a DL version, but i'm a bit bogged down with Revisited and other things at the moment to do a DL version just yet.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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adywan said:



Lord__Vader said:

BTW. while making that video I noticed the whole wampa scene is a lot bluer in the reconstruction than the AVCHD. Why's that Ady?


well there is the shot of Luke when he flops down after trying to free his feet which was split into 2 sections for the SE and the problem was that there were about 5 missing frames. I had reconstructed whole this with the missing frames in that shot for ESB:R (and i didn't use the GOUT for the missing frames) so i just downscaled that from 720p to 480p and used the version from revisited, which has more of the blue still intact because i'd stripped a little too much out of the cave scene in the AVCHD. I see you have stripped all of the blue out of that shot in your video.

Now the video on youtube really can't be used to show that you can't really see much of a difference between the low & hi-res sources because of its crappy low bitrates. the artefacts due to youtubes very low bitrate compression masks a lot of the detail in a HD video so the transition wouldn't be as noticeable.  The scene you want to try is the Lando announcement one, but not just place the shots that were blended together in but actually start by using a HD source for the transition. Then you really do notice a huge jump in quality. Plus you will see the problems i went through with trying to match the HD to the GOUT so i could blend in certain element because there is so much frame distortion between the two its just not a simple thing like join the two together.

And both the AVCHD & this theatrical version were never pretending to be 100% accurate versions which is why i left the "Han's shirt" shot alone. I might change this if i do decide to do a DL version, but i'm a bit bogged down with Revisited and other things at the moment to do a DL version just yet.

Yay, five more frames from ESBR! I had wondered if there was any of Revisited in this project... ;-)

Undoing the SE fixes might prove interesting. Anything besides the shirt you would break back?

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doubleofive said:

The GOUT is a non-anamorphic (it doesn't stretch to fill your HDTV) copy made directly from the files they put on the laserdisc in 1993. It jitters, its blurry, its sad.

This is based on an HD transfer with elements taken either from an upscaled copy of the GOUT or high resolution scans of the original matte paintings.

Thanks for the precision 005. Never seen the DVD GOUT but ADY's version is definitely worthy of DVD quality.

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doubleofive said:

 It jitters, its blurry, its sad.

Hahahaha that's actually a very accurate description of the GOUT.

 

doubleofive said:


Undoing the SE fixes might prove interesting. Anything besides the shirt you would break back?

Yes maybe correct obvious blooper mistakes only and no SPX effects updates?? eg. "correcting" Luke bouncing back into frame after jumping off the Carbon Freezing chamber and not recoloring laser blasts sorta thing

"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-

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GhostAlpha26 said:


doubleofive said:
Undoing the SE fixes might prove interesting. Anything besides the shirt you would break back?

Yes maybe correct obvious blooper mistakes only and no SPX effects updates?? eg. "correcting" Luke bouncing back into frame after jumping off the Carbon Freezing chamber and not recoloring laser blasts sorta thing

No more fixing, just breaking those the SE fixed. Fixing is for Revisited.

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doubleofive said:

 


No more fixing, just breaking those the SE fixed. Fixing is for Revisited.

 

So no fixing of bloopers involved in the potential version that would attempt to fix the fixes that the SE tried fixing which would ultimately be the more fixed Theatrical Version of ESB which was fixed from the fixed AVCHD fixed version.

 

Gotcha :p

"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-

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GhostAlpha26 said:

So no fixing of bloopers involved in the potential version that would attempt to fix the fixes that the SE tried fixing which would ultimately be the more fixed Theatrical Version of ESB which was fixed from the fixed AVCHD fixed version.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__2B7NMjmvtw/SVlCM1-iraI/AAAAAAAAApU/v2cbhxY5OuA/s400/crushing_your_head.jpg

Keep that up and you're going to end up with a crushed head, buddy!

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TV's Frink said:

Lord__Vader said:

GhostAlpha26 said:

I haven't seen Ady's Theatrical Reconstruction yet but what shots are in his version that weren't in the original 1980's version?

...

EDIT: Oops, misread the question, Ady's reconstruction is exactly as it was in the 1980 original...

Well..not exactly.

OP:

adywan said:

Now this isn't a 100% true theatrical version as i didn't want to use the low quality GOUT to replace the newly zoomed and cropped cockpit shots that appear in the SE version but all of the SE elements have been removed.

Yeah, sure, I was reffering only to the wampa scene.

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 (Edited)

Actually, the issue I have more than anything is the color correction. Well, the image characteristics, anyway. The colors are fantastic. Hoth is white, but I'm glad to see that there is some blue in there, because there should be a tiny bit of blue in some of the shadows in certain scenes as far as I can tell, same with some of the Bespin duel. The issue really is one of contrast. The image is way too punchy. It looks like its the 2004 DI with balanced colors but nothing else. Usually it looks quite nice and makes the image seem sharper, but the black levels gobble up detail, the contrast is about 10-20% higher than it should be, and certain scenes have strange balances, for instance Dagobah seems to be a lot brighter (and blue/green-er, compared with the GOUT, which I still hold as the most reliable color reference; strangely some scenes here looks LESS contrasty than the GOUT). I'm being extremely nitpicky here, of course--this transfer is so good that any complaints have to be! If there ever is a 2.0 version of this done, it would be nice to have the midrange a tad brighter in most scenes to reflect the original photography. ESB was always the most contrasty in its lighting, but it was never quite this extreme. The saturation is also about 10-15% too hot, as usual with the 2004 balances.

Anyway, hate to complain, because like I said this was the most fun I have ever had watching ESB in as long as I can remember. There is a shot on Cloud City where Han and the gang are walking away from the camera towards an orange glass wall, just after they arrive, and I know Adywan you must have rotoscoped around the actors and dropped in the original orange wall, but for the life of me I can't see any of the seams. Its flawless. Bravo.

As far as I can tell, these are the things in the film that are still "altered":

-Hoth speeder recomps in all the scenes they are in, including Imperial Walker fight

-Imperial fleet introduction has recomposited elements

-Any asteroid chase recomps

-Falcon cockpit croping

-Han's shirt during the carbon freezing

I think there is one or two shots of the Falcon approaching Cloud City that have been recomposited for the SE (such as when it passes through a cloud) that remain as recomps. So really, aside from recomps, which might be best to leave as they are in the SE, Han's shirt is the only actual live-action alteration/addition that remains. If Adywan takes a second pass at this, I hope he gets rid of this one thing (adding in the shadow area should be easy, since there is little detail). Also, there is a shot or two in the duel where Vader's lightsaber core is still dulled down ("Your destiny lies with me Skywalker" shots in particular), if you want to count that.

There were also a few weird things I noticed--scratches in the recomped GOUT area. The GOUT shot of the wampa fur moving in particular has a lot of grain and dirt that is visible, I'm guessing this was left so as not to erase the detail on the fur (the previous GOUT shot of the shadow on the wall looks clean, but only because the white walls hide all the detail scrubbed away), and there is a shot of Lando and Leia running through a corridor where a hole/scratch appears in one frame in the recomped wall section, which stood out to me. Just pointing it out, for what it's worth. The other recomps are fine, although the establishing shot with the cloud car looks like it has some wobbly rotoscoping on the car at the head of the shot, must have been a pain to track it in.

Anyway, always feel guilty nitpicking this. You've done some fine work here Adywan!

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Lord__Vader said:

TV's Frink said:

Lord__Vader said:

GhostAlpha26 said:

I haven't seen Ady's Theatrical Reconstruction yet but what shots are in his version that weren't in the original 1980's version?

...

EDIT: Oops, misread the question, Ady's reconstruction is exactly as it was in the 1980 original...

Well..not exactly.

OP:

adywan said:

Now this isn't a 100% true theatrical version as i didn't want to use the low quality GOUT to replace the newly zoomed and cropped cockpit shots that appear in the SE version but all of the SE elements have been removed.

Yeah, sure, I was reffering only to the wampa scene.

Lol, I misread the question too, but in a different way.

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 (Edited)

adywan said:

...there were about 5 missing frames. I had reconstructed whole this with the missing frames in that shot for ESB:R (and i didn't use the GOUT for the missing frames)

I see you have stripped all of the blue out of that shot in your video.

 

Lord_Vader:

Where did you get the missing frames then? I tried reconstructing the Wampa scene before and this was always one of the obstacles.

And yeah I did deblue it so it would fit with the rest of the footage.

 

adywan said:

Now the video on youtube really can't be used to show that you can't really see much of a difference between the low & hi-res sources because of its crappy low bitrates...

...The scene you want to try is the Lando announcement one, but not just place the shots that were blended together in but actually start by using a HD source for the transition. Then you really do notice a huge jump in quality. Plus you will see the problems i went through with trying to match the HD to the GOUT so i could blend in certain element because there is so much frame distortion between the two its just not a simple thing like join the two together.

 

Lord_Vader:

Yeah, that's true about YOUTUBE, but the shots in the Wampa cave do blend with the HD quite well after some denoising, which of course blurs the detail out of the shot but as there wasn't much detail to begin with it did improve the shots.

And yes, the Lando scene would definitely stand out as it does stand out even in your DVD, not much but it does. But like I said before, if I'm gonna make an HD version for me to watch, I'll only remove the changes that bother me and this isn't one of them.

 

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Can anyone comment on the lightsabers during the Dagobah cave scene?  One of the problems I have with the '04 transfer is that the sabers are extremely dull and washed out during this part--compare with the GOUT and find piercing white cores and vibrant blade colours, as it should be.  The difference is striking, with the GOUT being the clear winner, with the '04 being pretty terrible.  Has any attempt been made to correct this?  Anyone have any screenshots of this scene?

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hairy_hen said:

Can anyone comment on the lightsabers during the Dagobah cave scene?  One of the problems I have with the '04 transfer is that the sabers are extremely dull and washed out during this part--compare with the GOUT and find piercing white cores and vibrant blade colours, as it should be.  The difference is striking, with the GOUT being the clear winner, with the '04 being pretty terrible.  Has any attempt been made to correct this?  Anyone have any screenshots of this scene?

Unfortunately the only way to recover most of the cores and glows would be through completely re-rotoscoping the lightsabers. I managed to brighten up many of the cores through the colour correction but some just couldn't be done this way.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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 (Edited)

The sabers in the cave scene are terrific. They look like they should. The cores are white and the colors very vibrant. The only time there is some dullness that I noticed is in a couple shots in the carbon freezing chamber duel (the tones are also inconsistent on Vader--orange, red, rosey--but I think this is in the original composite).

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Hi,
Now, I know it is a restoration and I thank you very much for!!
Nevertheless, I was pleasantly surprised by these pictures, maybe there is food for thought again for the final version Revisited.

Hope you take no offense to me

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Are you referring to the medals changing sides? I'm fairly certain Ady said he was going to fix that. He did in ANH:R, as well... I think.

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adywan said:



Judge said:

Are you referring to the medals changing sides? I'm fairly certain Ady said he was going to fix that. He did in ANH:R, as well... I think.


These were fixed in the 2004 version. As this was a theatrical recreation is used the flipped version i used for my '97 AVCHD

So you did break some things back... Shows how observant I was watching it!

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Hi, yes sure, it changes not only the site, I think the change is the colors, red- blue, red - black.

But if he fixes it, yes, this has already been done.

Greeting

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Nerfherder said:

WOW Nicholas those covers are beautiful - are they available for download yet please? That first cover is the poster I associate the most with Empire from my hazy memories of 1980!

I wish they'd use these poster designs for official releases - every post since 1997 just hasn't has that sweeping epic quality of the originals. Poster art seems to be a dying artform unfortunately :s

Goto the following thread to obtain the download links for my covers: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Adywans-ESB-1980-Theatrical-version-Reconstruction-Covers/topic/11558/

-NJM

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adywan said:

Judge said:

Are you referring to the medals changing sides? I'm fairly certain Ady said he was going to fix that. He did in ANH:R, as well... I think.

These were fixed in the 2004 version. As this was a theatrical recreation is used the flipped version i used for my '97 AVCHD

Ahh. Very good.