The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 174

Strictly speaking Dooku was as manipulated as the rest of the Jedi.

So really Obi-Wan should say something like, "We have all been deceived, even Dooku. Palpatine was behind everything, including the war. He is the Sith Lord we were looking for and now Anakin has become his apprentice."

Reading the screenplay is almost as painful as watching the film, there is so much redundant verbiage and clumsiness just there on the page. If only George had got Tom Stoppard to go through the whole thing with a black marker or better still write the whole PT.

If only there was a reliable way of stripping the dialogue from the rest of the soundtrack just to edit it to sound more like real people speaking instead of a group of actors trying their best to read a teenager's dabbling fan-fiction.

Reading it makes Mickey Suttle seem almost plausible.

Bingowings said:

Strictly speaking Dooku was as manipulated as the rest of the Jedi.

So really Obi-Wan should say something like, "We have all been deceived, even Dooku. Palpatine was behind everything, including the war. He is the Sith Lord we were looking for and now Anakin has become his apprentice."

I think that's vague. I mean, you could say that as the movie is already. I mean, Dooku was deceived. And he lost his head for it. The line really needs to somehow emphasize that Dooku was never evil.

Dooku in the theatrical cut seems to know the full picture but gets stabbed in the back at the last moment (presumably he doesn't bother trying to tell Anakin this because he doesn't think he will be believed and doesn't want to go out like a wuss, though I can't see what he had to lose by giving it a go).

In a rogue Jedi version Dooku may have no idea that Palpatine is the Sith Lord he may think he is just abducting the puppet leader of the Republic to force an investigation or he may know it's him and wants to force a confession.

Dooku's shocked response could work either way.

If Sidious (in disguise) ordered Lord Tyrannus to kidnap the Chancellor the shock may come from a sudden realisation of who his 'master' is.

If Sidious openly ordered Lord Tyrannus to appear to kidnap him (as a means of prolonging the war) the shock comes from finding out he has been double-crossed.

If Count Dooku doesn't know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord and thinks he is just another puppet in the Sith game, the shock comes from the sudden realisation that the big bad was on his ship all along.

The only time the shock doesn't work is if Jedi Dooku knows that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. In that instance wouldn't he either try to unmask or kill him as soon as possible?

Using Palpatine as bait for a show down with Obi-Wan and Anakin makes no sense at all if Jedi Dooku knows the Chancellor and the Sith Master are one and the same.

Yep... You're right. None of it makes sense.

Sigh.... Back to the Animated thread....

Don't give up completely, if Jedi Dooku knew that Palpatine was the Sith way back in AOTC he would have tried to blow the whistle on him there and then and in a JasonN style reworking it could be possible that Nute Gunray didn't know who Sidious was but he knew he was in position to get things done in the Senate and only turned to Dooku when he got caught with his pants down.

This still makes it a bit odd what Dooku was doing strapping Palpatine to an armchair on the bridge of his flagship when he could have stuck him in a prison cell surrounded by guards.

That doesn't make sense in any version of the story (other than Lucas wanted it to look a bit like the throne room in ROTJ and give the saber twirlers some room to dance in).

"Maybe you'd like it back in your cell, your highness?" :

maybe Palpatine wanted a nice view of the space battle as he waited.

Why didn't that scene happen in a more cramped area... I actually feel it would be interesting and makes it feel a bit more dangerous. Everything in PT is open and spacious... I miss my claustrophobic areas on the Death Star.

Oh, and I haven't given up hope.... I still see that Lucas has to kick the bucket someday, and the property will be left to someone, and maybe those people are reading this thread, and to those people I say... Get Kasdan, get Christopher Nolan, and remake the prequels!

OzoneSherrif said:

maybe Palpatine wanted a nice view of the space battle as he waited.

I'm sure he would but either as a pretend or real prisoner it makes no sense that Dooku would entertain such a desire.

Kenobi senses and gleefully desires to spring a trap he believes is formulated by Dooku but it's such a dumb trap that only an idiot would come up with it.

Basically it's to put a few easy as cheese (for Jedi) obstacles in the way between two Jedi and an empty room and then go in there with a few droids and fight them in person.

That's like Field Marshal Montgomery kidnapping Hirohito and hoping Yamamoto would rescue him in person and (finding luck on his side) sneeking up behind him and whacking him in head with a cricket bat just so he could flick the vees at Patton.

I could see Grievous as we see him doing it because he wants to collect Jedi pelts (though that in itself is dumb if he is meant to be a brilliant Separatist tactician).

But Dooku is meant to be either playing to win or playing convincingly at playing to win and he's doing neither.

What this script needed was a rational villain with a plan and an impulsive irrational one driven by revenge.

Why they couldn't have built up Dooku into the anti-Kenobi and Gunray as the anti-Anakin is beyond me.

Gunray would screw up a well laid plan just to get revenge on someone and Dooku could be the cool as a cucumber Force using sword master/leader.

If they wanted they could have even made cyber-Gunray with multiple robot arms to make up for his lack of physical and mystical prowess and sell toys while telling a story that made sense.

^Cheers matey!

isn't thatt kind of the same thing jason did? i had the same idea for dooku instead he knows that the republic was under the control of the sith but he sees himself as the only capable of stopping him.  he is too prideful in this version and that overconfidence and pride would be the end of him

I personally like the idea of Dooku being ahead of the game.

It would be great to have him inserted into the council meetings in TPM as a hologram (Naboo isn't the only world where trouble is being stirred up and he wants to get to the bottom of it and is more hands on than the rest of the Council).

The council send Dooku's protégé Qui-Gon and his apprentice to investigate the Naboo crisis on their own rather than mounting a full investigation and Dooku is resentful when Qui-Gon ends up paying with his life.

When Gunray and some of the other commerce based groups come to him with evidence of a conspiracy he listens when everybody else just thinks they are covering their backs.

When the council refuses to listen to his theories he goes alone thinking the Republic is too far under the sway of a hidden but powerful menace to be saved from within.

The droid armies are only built to defend the Separatists from a potential attack from the Republic, something he hopes will never happen.

Palpatine uses that as grounds to build his clone army and start the war.

I'd even move the Death Star plan into ROTS as their final desperate attempt to turn the tide on a war they know they are about to lose and have them try to negotiate peace only to have Palpatine send Vader to finalise the deal.

It makes the story more subtle and the conspiracy less Ickian.

Having Jedi on both sides of the war makes it easier for Palpatine to blame it all on them once he has all the power he needs.

It's essentially the same story but made more believable.

Avatar said:

isn't thatt kind of the same thing jason did? i had the same idea for dooku instead he knows that the republic was under the control of the sith but he sees himself as the only capable of stopping him.  he is too prideful in this version and that overconfidence and pride would be the end of him

Yes.

http://images.fanedit.org/fanedits_coverart/jasonn/SW2_TOTR/ep2jasonncutlist.doc

The core Separatists were all duped into actions which would call for their governments to be suspended from the senate without representation they tried to appeal but were labeled as rogue states and turned to Dooku for help.

Later more systems joined them when the came to believe what Dooku was saying.

Essentially the approach I'd take would be to change the reason for the invasion of Naboo to wanting to reclaim a lost province which Sidious claimed he could legitimise.

After that everyone is telling the truth.

Dooku wants to alert the Jedi to the Sith controlling the Senate, Gunray wants peace but the situation has got out of control.

This all plays into what Padme is always saying about not listening.

Lucas over complicated things when he turned Dooku into a Sith and undermined the potential of the story.

Palpatine is insidious, he doesn't need Dooku to be a Sith Lord to get him or the Separatists to do what he wants.

Like most wars the goals change with events.

At first Dooku wants a full investigation of what's going on and the Separatists never wanted to be separate at all but nobody is listening to them (because they have been duped into actions that make them enough enemies to not be listened to) and Dooku believes what they are saying he agrees to represent and eventually lead them.

As they are already separate they form a senate in exile which grows as more people join their cause.

This could be done by doing a redub of the Separatists council meeting scenes.

The Geonosians would want justice for the people Anakin has killed and because they see Padme and Kenobi as Republican spies.

Once the Jedi and the Clone troops arrive it becomes a fight for survival and Palpatine is kidnapped more out of desperation than anything because diplomacy has failed.

It's an avoidable war on both sides but Palpatine is keeping it going.

One change I would like to see would be having some Jedi wearing armor as in the Clone Wars series (not to tie in with the EU but to give some of the Jedi a medieval knight look) and also have some of the Jedi wearing pretty much the same outfit Luke wears in ROTJ (making that out to be an established uniform of some kind).

The idea that the Jedi wear moisture farmer robes all the time seems a bit odd.

Bingowings said:

One change I would like to see would be having some Jedi wearing armor as in the Clone Wars series (not to tie in with the EU but to give some of the Jedi a medieval knight look) and also have some of the Jedi wearing pretty much the same outfit Luke wears in ROTJ (making that out to be an established uniform of some kind).

The idea that the Jedi wear moisture farmer robes all the time seems a bit odd.

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing concept art of battle weary Jedi at some point - things like Ki Adi wearing an eye patch, it was an interesting idea that they obviously decided not to go with.

EDIT: it seems they made an action figure based on this concept - see here:

http://www.rebelscum.com/TLCBD38ConceptKi.asp