J. Williams & LSO, The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK AUDIOPHILE EDITION - Restored & Remastered Score (Released) — Page 6

^Ditto!

The second part should be up in a few hours, tomorrow the latter.

I think I'd rather compare with some decent headphones on, but maybe that's just me.

Ripplin said:

I think I'd rather compare with some decent headphones on, but maybe that's just me.

 Actually I didn't tell, but on the actual computer I use for posting and wich is meant to be quite a good equipement, I can only hear some differences but I can't catch the real improvements nor the increased dynamic range besides, no matter the headphones. Fortunately I don't work on that damn machine, excepted for editing.

I made a mistake when I said the balance corrections for "The Rebel Fleet/End Titles" were done in 8 parts. They've been done in 12 parts... Here are the cuts if you want to check:

0'00" - 0' 57"; 1'22"; 1'33"; 2'06"; 3'11"; 3'20"; 3'51"; 4'28"; 4'37"; 5'52"; 6'21"-6'23" (yeah, even the last bit!)

____

Samples 3/4 added.

Last sample added and not the least: a 15mn overview from CD3. It contains a bit from all the tracks, minus "the Imperial March" and "Yoda's Theme" wich have nothing to envy to these anyway...

ABC said:

I made a mistake when I said the balance corrections for "The Rebel Fleet/End Titles" were done in 8 parts. They've been done in 12 parts... Here are the cuts if you want to check:

0'00" - 0' 57"; 1'22"; 1'33"; 2'06"; 3'11"; 3'20"; 3'51"; 4'28"; 4'37"; 5'52"; 6'21"-6'23" (yeah, even the last bit!)

 That is many cuts... that easily can bring you a headache! ;)

Damn I had forgotten how ugly and boring The Imperial March sound in its SE form! I'm speechless, once again I'm in LSO heaven! I'm still amazed how good you have gotten this score to sound, and I'm still amazed after all these years what a f***ing Masterpiece this score is and it's even clearer to me now, with your superb mastering, it gives me the chills!

The Improvements is really easy to notice now with your new samples, so much detail and life revealed in the sound it's amazing, even when compared to the original RSO ones! Fantastic EQ! this is how its gonna be done, not loud and bright to fool the ears in to think it's sounding better, just gentle and subtle EQ. Thank you and well done ABC!

Your CD3 medley was a great listen! pretty good in the editing ;)

msycamore said:

ABC said:

I made a mistake when I said the balance corrections for "The Rebel Fleet/End Titles" were done in 8 parts. They've been done in 12 parts... Here are the cuts if you want to check:

0'00" - 0' 57"; 1'22"; 1'33"; 2'06"; 3'11"; 3'20"; 3'51"; 4'28"; 4'37"; 5'52"; 6'21"-6'23" (yeah, even the last bit!)

 That is many cuts... that easily can bring you a headache! ;)

 You forgot the first ones...!

13. The Rebel Fleet / Finale
                  (The Rebel Fleet)
· 0’00” - 1'47” | RSO CD (base remix)
· 1'47” - 1'57” | RSO CD (distortion correction through EQ's)
+ The first harp notes added from the Anthology
                  (Finale)
· 1'57” - 2'06” | RSO CD (distortion correction through EQ's)
· 2'06” - 3'42” | RSO CD (base remix) + "tape crash" restoration at 3'08" with Anthology
· 3'42” - 3'51” | RSO CD (re-EQ)
· 3'51” - 4'28” | RSO CD - from the "Imperial March" track
· 4'28” - 4'37” | Anthology - from the "Film Version" bonus track (distortion correction through EQ's)
· 4'37” - 5'47” | RSO CD (distortion correction through EQ's)
· 5'47” - 6'25” | RSO CD (base remix)

And even there you haven't the exact number of cuts they made for editing the whole track. There are a little more, notably in the first half of the "Rebel Fleet".

You won't find a more accurate version... :)

But hey, you were right: The Anthology uses different takes, when I thought only the mixing was different. But they look so close to me.

ABC said:

You won't find a more accurate version... :)

But hey, you were right: The Anthology uses different takes, when I thought only the mixing was different. But they look so close to me.

 

Your Album version sounds so beautiful I almost started to cry, love the restored harps to it :)

I think you have sucessfully managed to calm down the harsch sound of the SE tracks to match the rest, but Deal With The Dark Lord and Betrayal is two tracks that is hard to comment on, and work on I guess. I didn't know the problems with those until you pointed them out, I think both samples sound better and a little worse at the same time, as you described on the first page maybe its impossible to get the best from two worlds. By the way, Drawing The Battle Lines sounds terrific!

Wow.  This will be a pleasure to listen to from start to finish.  What more can be said?  The work on the Imperial March alone is outstanding, but the little nuances are what's going to make this special.  I really enjoyed the quieter moments in the 15 minute preview.  Nothing's overcooked.  There's no hiss or other distractions.  Just pure symphony.  And that's what it's all about.

And I'm especially looking forward to the 'bonus' film version of the end titles.  I really prefer that one to the RSO, even though your work is fantastic on restoring that track to its just glory!  The flow during the Imperial March section just feels better to me in that version.  But that's just my opinion.

Boy, I can't wait to encode these as 128 kbps mp3s!  That's gonna be sweet! (joking...joking) ;)

msycamore said:

I think you have sucessfully managed to calm down the harsch sound of the SE tracks to match the rest, but Deal With The Dark Lord and Betrayal is two tracks that is hard to comment on, and work on I guess... I think both samples sound better and a little worse at the same time...

Yeah I think you're right.

I just tried some variations on these ones and "Betrayal" looks now ok as possible: a little more clear and concrete the same time. For "Deal with the Dark Lord" it is possible I have something a little better but no more.

Savage said:

And I'm especially looking forward to the 'bonus' film version of the end titles... The flow during the Imperial March section just feels better to me in that version.  But that's just my opinion.

Don't worry, the bonus film version on my set IS the restored RSO with the Alt March bit, as on the previous OE. I've corrected the pitch on the march (wich is wrong on the film mix on CD4 from the Anthology btw, then surely in the film too), and reedited it with the new restoration... And this time the edit is neat.

I understand your preference and I would prefer it too. But it is obvious to me now why John Williams never selected it for the soundtrack release: it sounds over-saturated. It doesn't exist a clean version of it. But don't worry, it works well.

Boy, I can't wait to encode these as 128 kbps mp3s!  That's gonna be sweet! (joking...joking) ;)

If you wouldn't have added "(joking)" it would have been an excellent joke ! lol

Thanks for the comments guys !

Good to hear the development The Rebels Escape have gone through, I think your versions have finally found their right place on the set, perfect!

Btw, there's an obvious time alignement issue in "Deal With The Dark Lord". Don't know if it comes from a 4-track tape transfer, a 8-track tape transfer or else.

I hate to play with the tracks that way as it's hard to spot if I degrade or improve the file. But tinkering with the 2-track stereo has just made it better as it looks more "alive" and looks a bit more precise.

Just so you know my samples are still not definitive.

ABC said:

Btw, there's an obvious time alignement issue in "Deal With The Dark Lord". Don't know if it comes from a 4-track tape transfer, a 8-track tape transfer or else.

Sorry, I don't fully understand what you mean by that, do you mean it is out of sync? as I recall "Deal With The Dark Lord" was one of the filmmixes from the two-track tapes.

msycamore said:

ABC said:

Btw, there's an obvious time alignement issue in "Deal With The Dark Lord". Don't know if it comes from a 4-track tape transfer, a 8-track tape transfer or else.

Sorry, I don't fully understand what you mean by that, do you mean it is out of sync?

Yes, Some instruments are out of sync, for sure. Or all the track.

as I recall "Deal With The Dark Lord" was one of the filmmixes from the two-track tapes.

You mean 35mm stem ? Because as per coincidence, "The Rebels Escape" is also a 35mm filmmix, and what I clumsy call a frequency correction in the remixing details is rather to be called a time alignement rectification, as I did it. I guess "Lando and Han" and "Betrayal" are filmmixes too, and I suspect "Captives" to be so.

Luckily the Synch issue would be from since they transfered the 2-track. But if it comes from the 8 or 24 track tapes remixing, there's no way to have this better. I think checking the film will tell if it has been better, if the music is not too low.

... Or is it a problem in the recording ? "Lando's Palace" from the Anthology looks to have the same issues too, or anyway sounds corrupted mostly in the first part  and it has quite the same opacity on the LP's, and still a bit the same thing on the SE... Don't tell me this track has ever sounded neat. just lift the highs and you'll see, notably all the highest instruments like flutes sound distorted, but "Deal with the Dark Lord" is the worst for that.

Yeah, I think there has been problems to synch the tapes here, and it occurs ostensibly from "Lando's Palace" to "Deal with the Dark Lord", what is still more noticeable in my edits I think, as I try to avoid hiding such lacks.

Perhaps the problem is of another nature, anyway I won't do anything that I'm not certain it improves the track. But if corrupting a corrupted track makes it better,... I may think twice.

ABC said:

Yes, Some instruments are out of sync, for sure. Or all the track.

Some of the instruments... that sounds weird. I must give it a listen and compare with the film then.

ABC said:

You mean 35mm stem ? Because as per coincidence, "The Rebels Escape" is also a 35mm filmmix, and what I clumsy call a frequency correction in the remixing details is rather to be called a time alignement rectification, as I did it. I guess "Lando and Han" and "Betrayal" are filmmixes too, and I suspect "Captives" to be so.

As I understand it "The Rebels Escape Again" and "City In The Clouds-part 1" was the only tracks on the Anthology that was taken from 35mm film recordings. The other filmmixes on the Anthology was taken from four-track tape copies that was in very bad condition. I'm not sure but I think all the tracks on the SE that hasn't been remixed by Brian Risner is from these same transfers, including "Deal With The Dark Lord" and "Betrayal At Bespin". Those two tracks along with the others from that transfer have the original Eric Tomlinson filmmix.

Maybe this explain some of the the bad audio issues you can hear with it:

"At least one tape was beginning to fall apart as I transferred it," recollected mastering engineer Bill Wolford. "I had to use alcohol on the capstan wheel to clean the disintegrating residue off as it played, being careful not to affect the pitch. If I hadn't done this the tape would cause a squeal as it passed the heads rendering the dub useless."

Yes, I'd say "of course"... They are from the same series of transfer made in 1993. And I think you're right to point the desintegrating tapes, it always made me think about this part of the score.

But be sure I know word by word what you report here. I'm currently working on it.

(Due to the following off topic posts, reported next page)

I'm glad I'm only seeing that nonsense now. Not cool! Especially when I've dealt with real-life scares like that. >:-(