LOST — Page 19

OT.com's Lost Thread!  Featuring the Acronymic Stylings of Master VFP!

I am also glad to see Widmore's return to the island.  I, like C3PX, feared that his storyline would have been considered capped.

My friend thinks that perhaps the alt2004 stuff is the "temptation" that the MiB/EIG is offering the losties-  This is the life he is offering them if they join his side- This is the the life they are giving up if they join Jacob's side.

No reaction to Recon? I don't blame you all I guess, since aside from the arrival of Widmore's party nothing much has changed. Everything's still up in the air.

Although Charlotte cleans up pretty well, as it turns out.

Jay said:

Too many new characters this season. Too much extreme behavior from existing characters. Zero tension. Lousy explanation for the numbers. Boring, inconsistent, and very sloppy overall.

I'm watching BSG for the third time now (picked it up on Blu-ray). The remarkably even-toned writing and amazing consistency over the course of the show put Lost to shame. And the final season is fantastic--especially the ending. Wonderfully agnostic and open-ended.

Lost is a mess. I'm only watching to see the end, and I doubt I'll ever revisit the series in the future.

I'm in the same boat (on the same Island?).  I used to have the first season of LOST on DVD, but as the seasons wore on, I realized that I'll probably never watch them again.  However, I borrowed BSG from a friend last year, and all I can think about is buying it for myself on Blu-ray and watching it again.

Yeah, if you want to talk about BSG, why don't you go start your own paper company... I mean Star Wars website.

TheBoost said:

For what it's worth, has Jacob ever done anything that was clearly 'good' for anyone? Ever?

He paid for Kate's lunch box, He helped Jack get his stuck Apollo candy bar, He gave Hurley a nice guitar case worth about $100 with a wooden Ankh inside (value unknown), he offered the Man in Black (his declared enemy) some of his Fish/Meal (thought of as extreme good manners & saintly in some cultures)... All of these acts would elevate someone to sainthood in my eyes. Pretty kind acts for today's self centered and rude world. And why must we be showered with gifts and benevolent acts by someone for them to be deemed "Good" in our eyes? I would think such materialistic standards and desires would put a person who would set such standards in the mostly evil column. Vanity and avarice have long been considered sins. Maybe the same could be said about the desire for good deeds (positive life changing influences / answered prayers) from a God, Demi-God, or any wish granting Spirit (such as a Genie). The question should be, Has anyone on the Island done anything that was clearly good for Jacob (or The Island)?

Edit: I need to add that I also believe that the flash sideways events we are seeing are a direct result of a loop hole created by Jacob's influence. The flash-sideways alternate reality we see each week was created by Jacob's created time loophole (paradox). In it, Jacob has granted the wish of the Chinese temple master . In that flash-sideways reality the Chinese temple master's  son lives. This is because of Jacob and his influence, and can be considered good. Having and allowing Jacob's loophole to continue to exist is what I believe the battle to come in the last episodes will decide.

I think the Smoke Monster (aka: Zombie Locke) also has created a loophole (think Compass), but so has Jacob. Jacob's loophole was not expected and that is why we are at times seeing some surprise reactions from Zombie Locke. Like when he saw the little Blond Boy, and when Richard told Sun he saw them all die back in 1977. Look at Zombie Locke's reaction to that. How this is going to play out is not known by any side. Now think of the conversation on the beach between MAN in Black (Aka: Smoke Monster and Zombie Locke) about loopholes and progress.

See it there> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv7J5TO7t-w

FanFiltration said:

TheBoost said:

For what it's worth, has Jacob ever done anything that was clearly 'good' for anyone? Ever?

He paid for Kate's lunch box, He helped Jack get his stuck Apollo candy bar, He gave Hurley a nice guitar case worth about $100 with a wooden Ankh inside (value unknown), he offered the Man in Black (his declared enemy) some of his Fish/Meal (thought of as extreme good manners & saintly in some cultures)... All of these acts would elevate someone to sainthood in my eyes.

Whoooohooooo! I am uber saintly then. I do these sorts of things all the time, and still see myself as a fairly selfish person. I think I will change my description from "Evil One" to "Saint". Even just today I altruistically gave someone I didn't know a dollar to buy themselves some nasty carbonated HFCS Water from a vending machine.

EDIT: Very interesting post FF, I like your theories.

Jay said:

And the final season is fantastic--especially the ending. Wonderfully agnostic and open-ended.

Just out of curiousity, how is it "agnostic"? BSG's final, love it or hate it, basically answered all the shows mysteries with the catch all "God did it!". Which seems to me definitively theistic, since it clearly explained that there was some diety pulling the strings all along.

I agree with just about every word you said in there. It obviously wasn't intended to be the Judeo-Christian God by any stretch, in fact, it made it very clear it wasn't. When you talk about God and theism, it is not only limited to the traditional Judeo-Christian take on the subject. But what is presented to us is definitely a omniscient and omnipotent being, with abilities to create and to send angels (messengers) and even raise the dead. I still feel the shows finale, by definition, was not agnostic. Not that it is worth debating about, or that I want to debate it, I was just curious how you viewed it as agnostic, and now my curiosity has been satified. Thanks.

Sooo.... tonights Richard episode?  Full of answers or full of frustration?  There will definitely be the opportunity for answers... but the show writers know how to constantly avoid giving any up for their dedicated viewers.

Case->Point: Consider last week's exchange between Widmore and Saywer:
S: What the big deal, Hoss?
W: Please Mr. Ford, do come in.
S: You want to destroy this island and all of my friends, Chuck
W: You don't really understand anything, do you?
S: Maybe I do and maybe I don't.
W: Well, I could simply explain it to you, but there are still 8 episodes left and I've signed a contract not to say anything remotely useful until the last 5 minutes of the final episode.
S: And what if I shut the door so the viewers at home can't hear us?
W: Eh... that will work.

No matter how many answers they give, it won't be enough for me.  I've come to terms with that.

I look forward to this Richard-centric episode.  I'm assuming it won't be a flash-sideways, due to Richard's age.

Anyone up for a liveblog in a few minutes?

Like I said a few minutes ago on my Twitter:

A genuine flashback telling a story we wanted to hear that also gives legitimate answers? What are you trying to pull on us, LOST?

Richard was always one of the more intriguing characters to me, its nice to have a solid episode that tells his story.

Here's a thought:

Jacob uses the wine bottle as a metaphor for the Island holding back the evil.  He give the wine bottle to MIB and he smashes it.  What if this is more than a metaphor?  What if MIB actually was responsible for Jack and Co blowing up the Island?  Would that make the flash-sideways the one where evil is loose?  Cause that doesn't really make sense.  That's what its just a thought.

So...

In last season's finale, we see Jacob and MIB talking in the shadow of the statue... it's morning and they're looking at a boat offshore that Jacob claims to have brought to the island.

In this episode, the Black Rock crashes in the island when 100 ft (?) waves mercilessly drag it there, crashing through the statue and marooning the ship pretty far inland.

Was this later that day?  Or was the boat in "The Incident" not the Black Rock?  MIB's hair is completely different, but it was a week or so later when we saw him so maybe he had it cut?

005:

Good call on the bottle and the island explosion.  I think the alt stuff is when Jacob didn't touch their lives.  Especially in the case of Ford/Sawyer.  If Jacob wasn't there to hand him a pen, then he never crystalized his hatred for Cooper into that letter that drove him to be a conman himself.  I think the alt stuff looks better than the "real stuff" we've been seeing for years, but in the end it will be worse.  Perhaps the evil is out, like you said.

My other thought is that The Numbers are the The Numbers only because they are next to The Names.  And in the Valenzetti Eq, you're supposed to change The Numbers (or The People) to prevent the End of the World.  If Jacob was unable (due to the incident) to touch or change the People, then their own lives would be happier... but they will end when the world ends.  In the reality where Jacob does influence them, their lives kind of suck- but it's necessary to keep the world from ending.

In the previous episode, Jacob explained the purpose behind the island's existence.

There is a second island next to THE island. What is its purpose?

Maybe it's all one island with a little water separating two parts of it?

So... did anyone get a little bit of a "Dogma" feeling from last night's episode?  The "If the MIB executes his loophole, we will all cease to exist (potentially due to proving God a liar and undoing all of His creation?" bit?

And, I guess, whether they like it or not, Ben and Widmore are now on the same side?  Or is Widmore still on his own side...?

And what do you make of Patchy getting shot in the eye?  Alternate universe parallel or actually the reason he's got the patch on in the regular-verse?

It was nice to see the Kwon's back together even if it was only in the alt-stuff.

And what's the point of Sun only being able to speak Korean?  Is it just a time waster, or is there going to be something significant here?