xhonzi said:
VideInfra78 said:
...forgot to mention my interpretations of the Force. I always thought that Dark Side and Light Side were polar opposites of each other and that the Jedi would live on in the afterlife while the Dark Side users would have an afterlife in the Star Wars world. So my interpretation was that Dark Side users could never die of natural causes. That was the power of the dark side, immortality, but when they die, their "life energy" is dissipated in the "real world" like what happens to the Emperor. The choice would be that as a Light Sider you could live forever in the afterlife but have a limited life here, but as a Dark Sider you could live forever in the "real world". It makes for a much tougher choice, you just have to be sure you don't get axed. It's kind of like making a deal with the Devil/Dark Side. Anyway, that's just how I thought it should always be. I always thought the Emperor was hundreds of years old as a child and that he was once human but that age and the dark side had corrupted his physical appearance.
That's interesting. That's not too far off from what I was saying, but that they couldn't die from natural causes. Presumably with some supernatural protection against unnatural causes as well, or else they might not be willing to stick their necks out so far trying to conquer the galaxy.
I also got the sense that Palpatine was very old.
I'm not sure where I dropped this other little nugget. (It's here several places, I know, but I'm not sure where any one of them is) In trying to craft a "realistic and satisfactory" arc for Anakin that includes a "fall/seduction" to the Dark Side... I've analized Luke's "lean to the Dark Side" at the end of Jedi. It's the only concrete example of how the Dark Side can overtake an otherwise good Jedi. And the conclusion I've come to is that the scene, on the surface, is broken to me. Palpatine claims Luke will be his new apprentice if he can take out Vader. Assuming this is true, why would Luke "stop killing the bad guys" if the Dark Side had compelled him to kill Vader? Wouldn't he follow through and take out Palpatine as well? He would have tried, at least, right? Either he would have killed Palpatine or would have been killed by Palpatine. Maybe I can see him attacking Palpatine and being toyed with Cat->Mouse until Palpatine traps him and takes him prisoner for further indoctrination...
But I digress. My point is this: Palpatine appears to not have a very good exit strategy from DSII at the end of RotJ. This makes him look a little stupid. And how exactly Luke would end up being his apprentice in any scenario- I can't see it working out. IF you take into account Palpatine using cloning and not fearing his own death... then he is poised to use his death as a means of converting Luke to the Dark Side. If Luke wins his "duel" with Vader by tapping into the Dark Side, presumably he then turns on an undefended Palpatine. The Light Side would not allow Luke to kill an undefended man, no matter how evil he might be. But the Dark Side! The Dark Side would compel Luke to take revenge on the man, to blame him for the making Luke kill his own father! It was Palpatine's fault for corrupting him afterall! So, Luke cuts him down! Is his Journey to the Dark Side complete? No, what nonsense! But his Journey to the Dark Side has begun. And Palpatine, having cheated death, will be there to guide him in.
Anakin's first temptation as a Sith should not have been to murder innocent Jedi children. Murder. Innocent. Jedi. Children. It goes against everything the man stood for 10 minutes prior. Sending him to despose of the Separatist Leaders is much better. It's not murder, it's a military assassination to end a war. Palpatine is a commander and Anakin is a soldier- and the war does need to end. So you can justify it, from a moral perspective. And using the Dark Side to control enough power to bring to pass a good thing... THAT is a temptation for a Jedi.
Return of the Jedi is my least favorite of the OT movies, but I don't mind any of the scenes with Vader, Palps, and Luke...other than I thought Vader should have disappeared. I always interpreted it as Palps just needed him to turn to the Dark Side to control him. So after Luke turns, it's like a switch has gone off and he doesn't really think rationally anymore. And from what we saw, Palps would have no problem handling Luke anyway. But yeah, if he goes to the Dark Side and still thinks rationally it doesn't make sense, but I got the feeling the Dark Side makes you kinda crazy and Palps just needed to push Luke over the edge.
With your clone concept, Luke still thinks rationally as a Dark Side user, he would always try to kill Palps, clones or not. I like that you've tried to work clones into the overall story, but I think that cloning technology has to end with the PT because it's never mentioned throughout any of the movies other than a reference to the past in which it's pretty much assumed since there are no more clones, that the clone threat/technology was defeated. But that's just my take on the whole thing. But yeah, as far as Anakin's fall, it was just weird. There was never any type of temptation at all really, not a believable one. When Anakin does turn, I would say he does the correct thing, and not Mace. Anakin wants to arrest Palps, I think that was actually more of the "light side" thing to do, Mace wanted to go vigilante, that in my eyes is more dark side. Anakin's reasoning could have been an excuse, but still Anakin ended up doing a light side act to turn to the dark side. That makes no sense to me.