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Sexism in Action Movies?

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 (Edited)

Inspired by the interesting discussion on the "Racist Movies" thread, this got me thinking.

Do you suppose it is possible to make an action/adventure movie with a female hero where how sexy she is isn't a factor?

I think the only films that even try are the "Alien" films.

Rambo is shirtless and sweaty in most of the movies, but the camera never lingers sexily on his biceps or thighs like it does on say, Lara Croft or Ashlie Judd in Aeon Flux. In "Long Kiss Goodnight" when Geena Davis realizes she's an action hero, she starts getting sexier.

Of the many bad moves in the PT, one of my least favorites has to be the Padme "slashed by a tiger now I'm in a bare-midriff" moment in AOTC. 

In the new Star Trek, Uhura is a competent and exceptional officer, but she's also super hot and they make note of that on many occasions.

Can a woman in an adventure film not be defined by how sexy she is?

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No, because we want our actresses and actors to be attractive people. Any guy who's played an action hero has more than his share of swooning fans.

Besides, there's just no cap on attractive. I don't find Kirsten Dunst attractive. But if she was portrayed as an action hero and her sexuality was as downplayed as much as possible, I believe there would still loads of dudes going ZOMG HOTTT!!!11!

But yeah, the instant half-shirt in AOTC was hard to believe.

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 (Edited)

I wish so. But I am not sure. I have often felt this exact same way about the situation. The Tiger slashed bare-midriff bit in AOTC really irked me too.

What about Uma Thurman in the Kill Bill movies? Maybe it is just because Uma Thurman is one of those women who never really did it for me, but I don't seem to remember them really sexing her up in that. I don't deny that she is in good shape and has a nice body, nor am I saying that she isn't sexy in that film, I just mean that I don't seem to recall them trying to show off her sexiness to an excess like many action heroines.

 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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vote_for_palpatine said:

No, because we want our actresses and actors to be attractive people. Any guy who's played an action hero has more than his share of swooning fans.

Besides, there's just no cap on attractive. I don't find Kirsten Dunst attractive. But if she was portrayed as an action hero and her sexuality was as downplayed as much as possible, I believe there would still loads of dudes going ZOMG HOTTT!!!11!

But yeah, the instant half-shirt in AOTC was hard to believe.

There is a huge difference between someone being attractive, and someone being portrayed as over the top sexy. Laura Croft is a excellent example of this. Rather than giving her more practical gear for her job, she is given really short shorts and extremely tight clothing to accentuate her shape. Sure, if she was wearing khakis and loose fitting leather jacket, you'd still get guys calling her hot. But that is a lot different than dressing her in fantasy clothing letting the video camera linger on her girly bits for long stretches at a time.

 

ferris209 said:

Oh good Lord.

Care to explain that one?

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Most action heroes do have conventionally attractive male bodies but I guess Boost is programmed not to notice.

It does go in a similar scale (going from easy on the eye to OTT muscle model) as female action heroines, the only real difference is that it's really rare to have a middle aged or mature female action heroine.

I think the nearest thing to Willis in Die Hard 4, Ford in Indy IV etc was Ripley 8 in Alien 4.

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In the case of Lara Croft, the movie didn't start that. The game did.

And I think you were right about Uma in Kill Bill. She wasn't sexed up IIRC.

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C3PX said:

ferris209 said:

Oh good Lord.

Care to explain that one?

I just think Boost is really over thinking our entertainment industry too much.

Stereo-types are funny.

The general public likes attractive people.

 

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Tarantino's Death Proof (his half of Grindhouse), didn't really sex up the female characters. Well, in the first half it did, but the ones that were actually kicking ass were just in jeans and T-shirts.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Nanner Split said:

Tarantino's Death Proof (his half of Grindhouse), didn't really sex up the female characters. Well, in the first half it did, but the ones that were actually kicking ass were just in jeans and T-shirts.

 

I really liked Death Proof, I guess i enjoyed seeing Kurt Russell be a mean bastard again. I didn't care anything for Planet Terror.

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ferris209 said:

Nanner Split said:

Tarantino's Death Proof (his half of Grindhouse), didn't really sex up the female characters. Well, in the first half it did, but the ones that were actually kicking ass were just in jeans and T-shirts.

 

I really liked Death Proof, I guess i enjoyed seeing Kurt Russell be a mean bastard again. I didn't care anything for Planet Terror.

Although I did enjoy Planet Terror, I agree that Death Proof was waaaay better. For some reason when I went to see it in the theatre, everyone I was with loved Planet Terror and hated Death Proof, and I'm still not sure why that is. :\

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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 (Edited)

Damn somebody turned on the snark right quick.

Calm the fuck down, I just posed the question.Though we might have a discussion that's not kneejerk and assy... I even put a "?" in the thread title.

I don't just mean that the chicks are sexy. Most movie stars are. I was thinking about the near fetishism of how they are presented.

Is Christian Bale a good looking dude? Hell yeah. Is he ever shown as a sex object in "Batman"? No. Does the camera ever pan lovingly over Hugh Jackman's ripped and strong and sweaty shoulders? It doesn't.

When the camera showed Batman's latex ass in "Batman 4" it was mocked for years. When the camera gets all sorts of closeups of Catwoman's, Elektra's, Lara Crofts, Halle Berry in that Bond flick, chick from Underworld, Sue Storm's asses it's business as usual.

I didn't consider Kill Bill (I totally hated that flick, didn't see 2).

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TheBoost said:

When the camera showed Batman's latex ass in "Batman 4" it was mocked for years. When the camera gets all sorts of closeups of Catwoman's, Elektra's, Lara Crofts, Halle Berry in that Bond flick, Sue Storm's asses it's business as usual.

Cause female booty looks way better than man booty.

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Kill Bill was unbelievable awesome! I always thought it looked like a dumb over the top action flick, but then I watched it and really enjoyed it. The camp is intentional, and the film actually had some decent emotional depth to it. I still maintain that Tarantino is style over substance, but his style contains a lot of substance, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, back to topic. I am very much on the side of TheBoost on this one. Female heroes are almost always sexualized in a way that makes it painfully obvious that these women are being written by men. Even from back in the days of Wonderwoman, all the other DC heroes were clothed from head to toe, it was the woman who showed all the skin. That ridiculous Catwoman is a perfect example of what TheBoost is talking about.

Another good example is the not so great film, King Arthur from a few years back. Keira Knightly, who I find to be extremely attractive, though perhaps a bit too thin, played the female lead in that film. She is well known for having a very flat chest, which I don't think makes her any less hot, but I have always kind of had a thing for smaller sizes anyway. On the American movie poster for the film, she has very large breasts. You can do a google search and probably find side by side comparisons of the poster used worldwide, showing her real chest size, and the American poster, which is obviously photoshopped. That is just really pathetic to me, that in order to get people to go see a film we fill the need to make sure her breats look big enough. 

Here, even went through the trouble of googling it myself. I personally think she looks just find in the first pic.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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 (Edited)

TheBoost said:

.... Does the camera ever pan lovingly over Hugh Jackman's ripped and strong and sweaty shoulders? It doesn't.

When the camera showed Batman's latex ass in "Batman 4" it was mocked for years. When the camera gets all sorts of closeups of Catwoman's, Elektra's, Lara Crofts, Halle Berry in that Bond flick, chick from Underworld, Sue Storm's asses it's business as usual.

I didn't consider Kill Bill (I totally hated that flick, didn't see 2).

Jackman certainly does get the linger treatment, possibly a gay director has something to do with this in the first X-Men film at least but Stephen Sommers lingered a lot on Jackman and Well Kemp in Van Helsing and his marital status would not seem to indicate any particular interest.

Having recently seen Blade 3 the man flesh is lingered on a lot more than the female flesh in that film.

Zack Snyder is also married to a lady of the opposite sex and 300 is often sent up as being homoerotic on an scale more epic than the other aspects of the film.

Halle Berry's Catwoman was the object of ridicule for many reason, including the costume making her look more like a particular form of dancer than a super-anti-heroine.

Bond (unless it's Moore in his later years) usually gets a great deal of attention on screen arguably as much as the girls (only there is one Bond per film and more girls). In Casino Royale Daniel Craig's body gets much more screen attention than Eva Green's.

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ferris209 said:

TheBoost said:

When the camera showed Batman's latex ass in "Batman 4" it was mocked for years. When the camera gets all sorts of closeups of Catwoman's, Elektra's, Lara Crofts, Halle Berry in that Bond flick, Sue Storm's asses it's business as usual.

Cause female booty looks way better than man booty.

Yo professa, what's another word for pirate treasure?

Well I think it's booty...

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C3PX said:

Kill Bill was unbelievable awesome! I always thought it looked like a dumb over the top action flick, but then I watched it and really enjoyed it. The camp is intentional, and the film actually had some decent emotional depth to it. I still maintain that Tarantino is style over substance, but his style contains a lot of substance, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, back to topic. I am very much on the side of TheBoost on this one. Female heroes are almost always sexualized in a way that makes it painfully obvious that these women are being written by men. Even from back in the days of Wonderwoman, all the other DC heroes were clothed from head to toe, it was the woman who showed all the skin. That ridiculous Catwoman is a perfect example of what TheBoost is talking about.

Another good example is the not so great film, King Arthur from a few years back. Keira Knightly, who I find to be extremely attractive, though perhaps a bit too thin, played the female lead in that film. She is well known for having a very flat chest, which I don't think makes her any less hot, but I have always kind of had a thing for smaller sizes anyway. On the American movie poster for the film, she has very large breasts. You can do a google search and probably find side by side comparisons of the poster used worldwide, showing her real chest size, and the American poster, which is obviously photoshopped. That is just really pathetic to me, that in order to get people to go see a film we fill the need to make sure her breats look big enough. 

Here, even went through the trouble of googling it myself. I personally think she looks just find in the first pic.

It gets even creepier.  Back in 2007 when Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix came out, WB tried to do the same thing to Emma Watson in its poster (and she was, like, 16 at the time).  People did notice, cried child sexualization, and Watson's, um, artificial enhancements were removed.

But, yeah, this is a good topic, and it's so true.  I especially do like the hypocrisy of Bat ass=bad, Lara Croft ass=good.  I would barely consider what Schumacher did to be for titilation.  I mean, yes, he does use the term "anatomically erotic", but that's more of a perception of the human form in general.  Like TheBoost and others have said, aside from the bizarre batass shots (of which there are, what, one in Forever and two in Robin?) there aren't any gratuitiously titillating shots of Batman.  He doesn't bend over.  There's no Bruce Wayne shower scene.  Like Rambo, Batman's and Robin's muscular bodies basically show that they're capable of being strong action stars.  But in the same film, Batgirl is given extremely impractical high-heeled boots.  Yeah, have fun fighting crime in those!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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 (Edited)

Batman and Robin are given impractical rubber muscle suits with nipples though (not to mention ice-skates fitted as standard), does that let Batgirl and Catwoman off the heels?

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Yes, because I am sure the nipples on their armored suits deter their walking abilities just as much as the high heels. The suits, are just that, suits, they are not showing the actual form of the actors. As far as I can tell, the intention of the suits are to aid them in crime fighting by providing them protection. High heels? Eh? Seriously? High heels? I guess it makes their kicks more deadly? Also, the ice skates built into the shoes (as stupid as the that idea was) were just another gadget built into their suits, and in the film they serves a purpose. Again, I fail to see how this is in any small way analogous to high heels.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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And limit their mobility, vision, hearing etc, etc.

Have you tried fighting hordes of dayglow painted musclemen encased in thick rubber?

I can tell you, it's no easy task.

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No, I haven't. I am just saying, it has a practical explaination. High heels don't.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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High heels can be a very painfully weapon (they aren't called Stillettos for nothing).

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I guess we could go back and forth on this one all night. I just think it is pretty obvious that what TheBoost is saying about women being sexualized is fairly accurate.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I think the reason for this is simple.   Action movies are made for men, not women.     Since most men aren't gay, they'd rather see women sexualized than men.   Sex sells. 

ferris209 said:

C3PX said:

ferris209 said:

Oh good Lord.

Care to explain that one?

Stereo-types are funny.

tell that to a black person after they watch Birth Of A Nation, also . . .

its funny how you didn't think stereo-types were funny here:

ferris209 said:

I don't necessarily dislike Avatar just because of the politics, but they do help me to hate it. I do not like that they portray the "villainous" army to be "Marines" who happen to dress, look, and act like our U.S. Marine Corp.