Bingowings said:

RoccondilRinon said:

Agreed to an extent, but I feel the need to point out: there is a difference, when it comes to morals, between "shades of grey" and "murky and undefined".

That's the problem.

We are told that the Jedi are guardians of peace and justice but they are a bunch of gits who indoctrinate the very young, are on the beck and call of corrupt politicians (until their own turf gets trodden on) they are colossally stupid (as witnessed by the Fett investigation to nowhere) and cruel (they seem to keep Shmi in slavery just to test how attached Anakin is to her).

We are told that in the Clone Wars there were heroes on both sides, Gunray's appeal to Vader about wanting peace is the nearest we get to that but from his rubbery lips it comes across as just a vain attempt to get out of the stickiest of situations (as usual). Most of the time the Separatists are painted as just comedy villains with no real threat to them.

Neither are really gray complex groups, both are just badly defined and react completely to Lucas' whim to set up the spawning of an action sequence (which we have very little emotional attachment to because the players involved are less defined than they are in a game of Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat).

That was kind of my point, Bingowings, only you worded it much better. Don't you agree though that a lot of these things could be fixed? We could make the Jedi look a lot less dumb by cutting the Kamino investigation, and making them suspect Palpatine earlier. That's why I would also keep Dooku a Sith: there simply isn't enough of his character to support any ambiguity in his motivations.