zombie84 said:
Or how about films are considered good by many people because they are good films? That people just honestly believe that? People are very vocal about their love and hate for certain films, especially in the ST circles where people will bash STV to death and then profess great love of STII. This argument doesn't hold much water, nor is it possible to prove in any case.
Anyway, having read much about the films, talked to many people about the films, even been to a Star Trek convention, I can say that of the hundreds of people I've interacted with about them, I have never heard of that before. I'm not being literal in saying that 98% of people believe that, but certainly I've never encounted anyone who shares your view, nor even heard of such a thing from others, so at the very least its an incredibly minority stance on the films. As I said, nothing wrong with that, to each his own, I just find it a bit strange, and not because I'm some brainwashed sheep.
That people just honestly believe that?
People can just honestly believe something and still be thinking in a way that is influenced by the herd. A lot of herd influence is not something the influenced people are consciously aware of.
Or how about films are considered good by many people because they are good films?
There are so many crap films that a lot of people believe are good.
so at the very least its an incredibly minority stance on the films.
Among fans. There are so many casual moviegoers out there who don't talk about the films at conventions or on message boards or whatnot.
especially in the ST circles
Exactly, in ST circles. Where people are just perfectly set up to have their views influenced by other ST fans. What about outside ST circles? Some ordinary moviegoer who goes to a Trek movie -they have opinions too and you don't know all their opinions. They're the ones least likely to make special exceptions for Trek movies and tolerate shit like Khan.
This argument doesn't hold much water
I think that's a matter of opinion.
I'm going to stop debating the herd mentality thing, because people won't appreciate the argument much, but don't expect that my opinion on the matter is going to change. I don't mean any offense to anybody with the herd-think viewpoint, I just believe in it and I brought it up because I felt it was unavoidable at that stage of the discussion.