Vaderisnothayden said:
Warbler said:
Vaderisnothayden, what do you so bad about TWOK and Montalban's performance? I've never heard anyone describe it as anywhere near stomach-turning, and why is the character of Khan so beyond belief? I agree that majority isn't always right but when so many think a movie is good, I've got to believe there is a good chance that the movie has some sort of merit in it.
Why do you have to believe that? The majority is so often wrong that its views are really no guide to quality. Shit is often hugely popular. Look at Titanic. Total shit. Massively popular.
in your opinion its shit. not mine. granted, I think it could have been done better. I wish it would have stuck more to the real story rather than a fictious love story. But it is a good movie, imho. As for why I believe a movie has a good chance of having some sort of merit, its because I just find it hard to believe that so many people could like a movie that has absolutely no merit. If figure if millions and millions of people like a movie, at least somewhere in those millions of people must be a few that have good judgement and/or judgment simular to my own.
Vaderisnothayden said:
I don't go by the critics' views either, because too often they are totally wrong, and pretentious about it, too. Sometimes critics seem to be the people who understand movies the least. I often run into reviews that show an amazing lack of insight or perception.
while I don't always agree with critics, I do not find them to be people who lack an understanding of movies. I necessarily go by them either, but I do respect their opinions. I more interested in not whether like or hate movie, but why they hate or like that movie.
Vaderisnothayden said:
The Montalban Khan performance is ridiculous hamming of an extremely self-indulgent sort. If you can't see why it's revolting I don't know how to explain it to you. I would think it would be obvious.
well if its so obvious, how come you are first person in the years since its released that I've run into that feels this way about Montalban's performance?
Vaderisnothayden said:
As for Khan being beyond belief, I don't believe I said anything to that effect to you,
yes you did. right here:
Vaderisnothayden said:
But Khan is awful. It's badly made generally and the character of Khan is awful beyond belief, including a stomach-turning performance from Ricardo Montalban. I can never fathom why some people think this movie is so good.
Vaderisnothayden said:
but he is beyond belief, because nobody acts like that. You can't believe in a story when you've got that shit going on, or the "Khaaaaan!" scream.
the Khaaaaan screem is part Shatner's performance, not Montalban's.
Vaderisnothayden said:
I also don't appreciate the casting of a Hispanic guy to play an Indian role.
Khan is supposed to Indian? I never got that.
Vaderisnothayden said:
Warbler said:
I have to kind of take issue with that, because you are sort of saying that TOS itself wasn't interesting or dramatic.
TOS is mostly crap. Nimoy is great as Spock and there's some good character interaction, but the show is inept in the extreme. I don't think anybody should approach Trek with any illusions about TOS.
TOS is crap???? to me and every other TOS fan, that is blasphemous. It is certainly not crap. Are the special effects crap? maybe. But you have to realize they were made in the 60's and they didn't have much of a budget. I find many of the episodes have a powerful message. Take City on The Edge Of Forever. That is certainly not crap. I don't how you can call TOS crap. If it was, explain how 5 series and 11 movies have come out of it.