"The People Vs. George Lucas" documentary... — Page 3

via: http://www.peoplevsgeorge.com/blog/

Another interview at: http://twitchfilm.net/interviews/2010/02/sxsw-2010-alexandre-philippe-talks-the-people-versus-george-lucas.php

and relatedly: SWUncut & PvsG team up

http://starwarsuncut.tumblr.com/post/370834743/the-people-vs-george-lucas

*cough*tBSWM completes trilogy*cough*

I like the fact that it looks like this movie is taking a balanced look at the Star Wars fandom and not just picking one side, because the great fan divide is a very complex issue. I myself often get pushed into the "Lucas supporter" category, but my own feelings about the franchise are a lot more complex what that that label represents. Pretty much everyone despises Jar Jar Binks and agrees that Episode I is the weakest movie in the entire saga, and I agree with the notion that if Lucas wants to fix something, it should be the prequels and not the OT (not to mention that the OOT still needs a high quality restoration, which Lucas seems to have no interest in doing at present).

I was made a fan of Star Wars through the VHS cassettes, and thus I suppose my view on things is a bit different from older fans who actually saw the movies in theaters the first time. The Star Wars I grew up with looked like crap, but I liked the movie in spite of this, not because of this. When the Special Editions came out, I know a lot of people berate the changes Lucas made, and I agree that Greedo has no business shooting first and that the additional "George Lucas humor" was out of place. But still, that was the first time I saw Star Wars in a theater, and it left a huge impact on me. I went from watching a fuzzy VHS tape on a 20 inch screen to seeing the movie in a theater with incredible new special effects, looking like it was shot yesterday. As an 11 year old kid, it blew my mind.

Even Jabba the Hutt, which looking back I do not think belongs in my regular viewing copy of the film was a great treat, because the scene was one that me and my friends had always been obsessed about seeing, not unlike how King Kong fans venerate the lost Spider Pit scene. Even if it doesn't mesh well with the film and doesn't contribute to the plot the way the Biggs scene did (the latter of which I feel was a worthy addition), it was still a great extra for people who had seen the movie a million times before and were curious about what got cut from the film, as was the case with me and my friends.

Having said all that, I think that there should be a co-existence between the special editions and the original, unaltered trilogy. I'm hopeful that at the very least George Lucas's next run of special editions will provide some good fodder for fan edits with their new effects shots and HD transfers. With OOT, I think needs to be preserved since it's an important part of film history, and because there are many people who refuse to watch any other version, and shouldn't they be able to watch the film the way they prefer, warts and all?

Obviously, I could go on for pages and pages about what things I do and don't like about how Lucas has treated Star Wars, but at the end of the day I am a Star Wars fan. Like most of my generation I prefer the original trilogy, but I am not conceptually opposed to the Special editions, and I also get a lot of enjoyment from the prequels even though there's a lot of frustration that must be dug through to find it. I suppose that's how I could describe Lucas-- he frustrates me at times, but at the end of the day he's the guy who makes Star Wars, and the reason he keeps making more is because we keep asking for it.

I hope this doc gives some heat to the cause of getting the original versions some respect. Ideally for me the whole thing would just be clips of people showing CGI creatures and landscapes from THX1138 and the star wars special editions to a bunch of schoolkids and telling them this is what movies looked like in the 70s. I bet the lucas policy would seem extra scummy in action.

No kiddin'. I mean, if I wanted to put together a montage of 70's and 80's movies, how am I supposed to do that without the original versions of these movies? That very problem has happened before, because George Lucas will only funish footage from the Special Editions when people want to show footage of them, even if it's in a historical context. I think it was the AFI who was doing a by-decades montage of film, and they couldn't use Star Wars because Lucas wouldn't approve of them showing footage from the '77 version. I also saw a documentary about Harrison Ford on TV a while back, and when they got to discussing his involvement with Star Wars, they showed the Cantina scene where FREAKING GREEDO SHOT FIRST! In addition to the shot being offensive, in the context it did not make any sense because they were discussing Ford's career at that period, and that is not how the scene played out when the film released.

Like I said, I am not against special editions of movies. What I am against is that George Lucas has more or less stamped out the original versions of his films from history. It's one thing to want to make a movie more enjoyable to new audiences with better special effects and picture quality, but it's another thing to try and revise history and say "this is the movie that came out in 1977, and don't try to tell me otherwise even if it's not true." And, there are the stupid alterations like Greedo shooting first, Boba Fett's voice and Hayden Christensen as Anakin's force spirit.

It's a pretty weird situation. Would this documentary (and the sentiment behind it) even exist if it wasn't for this dumb policy about the old versions? A policy that really has only fully existed since 2004? (before that you could still get either version only on tape or laser so they were basically still on equal footing).

The prequels and the special editions would still have their fans and non-fans but I don't think Lucas would be catching this level of controversy. People may not even know why they find the guy as off-putting as they do, he's not the only guy who's made lesser sequels. Maybe it's because you really have to be a billionaire to have the power to deprive so many people of a simple pleasure (like watching an old movie). The simple shit is really important to the rest of us slobs, george.

One fan base that is similar to Star Wars is the Anne Rice book fans.

Her first vamp book was published about the same time as when ANH came out (though it was written in 1973) and while there are people who defend all her work there is a vocal group of detractors who really can't stand the direction she took her series in later books.

The usual cry is that she needs an editor because he total control over the material in written form (the films etc she has had more of a fight with) has (to some) led her to wander away from the detailed and rich universe she created earlier.

I'm not a fan of her books (I've read one and saw Interview With The Vampire which I enjoyed) but it is astonishing some of the reactions to her later work and it seems to span the same generation as Star Wars fandom.

It might be interesting to make a more informed comparison because I'm no expert.

Are there any Vampire Chronicles fans around to test my suggestion?

The film is having its world premiere right now ( ~ 6:30-8:00 PM Central Time) at the South by Southwest (aka SXSW) Music and Film Festival in Austin.

http://my.sxsw.com/events/event/5208

Can't wait to hear the responses.

I am looking forward to this as well. It is interesting, at the very least.

The final cut will be tweaked after its premiere apparently. I am scheduled to be interviewed in early May for an evolving cut, though the director has warned me I will probably end up as a DVD extra only. They plan on showcasing some extended inteviews on the DVD, such as Dale Pollock's, which should be interesting (Dale Pollock's book is pretty tremendous). 

I'm really surprised at how much attention this film is getting. I didn't expect Wired would be making multiple articles covering it.

One review does latch onto this website's goals:

http://www.heatvisionblog.com/2010/03/the-people-vs-george-lucas-at-sxsw.html

Still, there are some interesting moments, especially when Philippe deals with Lucas' alienation and loneliness, and the twists and turns that have made him the marketing superpower he seemed to loathe as a younger man. The best questions the film raises are the ones about the director's refusal to issue original, theatrical versions of his original trilogy to compete with the new ones. The best answer is one that's never spoken: Deep down, Lucas knows viewers would likely want the old versions, not the ones he considers best. Even after all these years, he still doesn't know what people want.

& here's an audio interview from Tor's The Geek's Guide to the Galaxy Podcast:

http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=58895

Quint from AICN also recently reviewed it:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44274

It sounds like the documentary's pretty mixed in terms of quality and features more than its share of SW fans bitching and moaning about The Phantom Menace (which isn't exactly the type of film that I'd care to watch, cause I see plenty of that on this site already ;P ).

The films is collecting the 'fanboy' label, which is not good for a theatrical release... but people are acknowledging the dynamic output of the general public, which is a good thing

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62E0BY20100315

Philippe finds some people to defend Lucas' right to do whatever he wants with the universe he imagined, including turn it into a crushing bore. But in the end the prosecution/defense conceit isn't nearly as involving as glimpses of the vast array of creative output inspired by these films: Even a well-informed "Star Wars" enthusiast will likely make new discoveries here, and more-casual fans will be stunned by the homemade remakes, imaginative off-shoots and eagle-eyed edits put together by ordinary people who may have a stronger feel for the Force than the man who dreamed it up.

http://io9.com/5500510/the-one-thing-george-lucas-could-do-to-sway-the-people-in-his-favor

Relevant Portions:

Philippe: You know that's interesting because it really reminded me of, there's a guy, who's actually in the film, whose name is Adywan he's essentially a God among fan-editors. The whole fan edit movement is a whole other thing, but he spent two and a half years working on his recreation of Star Wars the way it should be, according to him. It's just a tremendous amount of work. But you look at some of the stuff he's done, for instance, we actually show a shot, a comparison, between George's version and Adywan's version. In George's version there's maybe five critters [on screen] and Adywan's only has two. And I say, If you had a problem, if you had an issue with those critters, why didn't you just remove them all? But he wanted to keep [two of] them. It's so nit-picky, it's really interesting. That's how passionate they are. They have this vision of Star Wars and they appropriate it and it becomes theirs. And in fact, all of them talk about it in terms of "this is in MY Star Wars." It's a very personal thing.

There's the example of the originaltrilogy.com website who petitioned to put out the original edition, and within the first few weeks you had 78,000 confirmed signatures. So the excuse that it costs too much money to restore those films, with all due respect to Lucasfilm, it's baloney. Of course the fans would buy it and of course they would make their money back. George has made it very very clear that he does not want these original films to be seen. I've received e-mails from theaters saying "We tried! We wanted to do a retrospective on the great films of the 20th century and we contacted Lucas Film. We assumed we could get a print of the original Star Wars, we were denied that right.

This documentary really explores the social contract between artist and audience, what did you learn about this contract, what has it become today because of the internet? Has it changed?

This is a difficult question because you can approach this question legally or morally. I'll approach it from a moral perspective. I think we live in a age where culture is rising. The fans are rising in a powerful way, perhaps also in some dangerous ways. But also in ways that reflect where culture is now. In recent years the fans have been expressing this sense that George these are not just your movies, these are also our movies. They belong to our culture. The fan editing movement as a whole is an embodiment of that. Henry Jenkins talks about Alice In Wonderland and how Lewis Carroll, by [the author] giving it to the people made and allowing them to remix it, allowing people to play in that sandbox, was precisely what made Alice one of the most popular texts around. Even considering the resistance that Lucas Film has had, the fans have remixed made fan films it and continue to play with it. It's a shared thing. I understand that there is legal ramifications and copyright laws and that is all fair. But when something, like Star Wars transcends, it's not just a story it's something that touches most of us in a very profound way. It's a reflection of culture, of our own selves. Therefore I believe that culture is entitled to it. I feel very strongly about this, that the fans are entitled to a restored, pristine trilogy the way we saw it.

doubleofive said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Yeah I'm not sure what to make of it.  If the goal was to take the silliest bits and make us look stupid, then I'm not sure I would have participated.

This would be my fear too.  You never know how interviews will be edited.

That sure was a cautionary example you gave there about your wife's experience doubleofive.

Having read a few reviews of this new 'SW fans' documentary now, it seems that's it's turned out to be a very mixed bag with quite a few low points.

Not that I expected much to begin with, considering the makers admitted that quite a few potentially interesting interviewees were put off from participating due to the 'confrontational'-sounding title they came up with.  Fair enough if they didn't want to change it, but I'd personally rathered they had, if it meant certain other people would have participated....

Pity.

However, I'll catch it sometime to see the adywan/fanediting spot, if nothing else, although judging by the maker's comments during the latest io9 interview, it seems as if they've ended up trivialising the overall amazing enhancements he's made....and just concentrated on the number of 'Wamp-rats' he removed....  I'll be very disappointed in them and this documentary, if that's the case.

vote_for_palpatine, the fact that they used the words 'The people vs' is the problem.

The makers have stated that there were some very interesting persons that were keen in participating too, but that had to rule themselves out due to the implication that 'everyone' in the documentary was 'against' GL....

I'm sure that with a little effort, that they could have come up with a slightly less inflammatory-sounding title (albeit they themselves looked on it as 'tongue-in-cheek') that would have been as equally attention-grabbing, but unlike yours, without the snark.

A possible reason PvsG decided to focus on the wamp-rat aspect of Adywan's edit is because it does show a joining of the minds.  For the most part one side of the argument has expressed their disapproval of the Special Editions changes, yet this sequence is one of those from the SE which ended up in the fan collaborated Adywan edit.  So PvsG could be using it to show that there is some give and take from Lucasfilm and the Fan Editing Community towards the final definitive 'Star Wars'.  Yeah that's probably a stretch...

On the 'any press is good press' side of this issue.  Although there might be inaccuracies or tweaked opinions in the final doc, the upside of getting word out about the goals of this website and the goals of the fan editing community could outweight the initial misconceptions.  If this thing does get a theatrical release, how many more people will end up aware of the work being accomplished here.  And if their interest is great enough, they'll find the reasons for the tweaked opinions in the words in these forums.

Also for the first time, in the io9 interview they've talked about releasing the full interviews with some of the participants.  That's a great resource, let's hope we hear more of this.