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RedLetterMedia's Revenge of Nadine [TPM 108 pg Resp. [RotS Review+RotS Preview+ST'09 Reveiw+Next Review Teaser+2002 Interview+AotC OutTakes+Noooooo! Doc.+SW Examiner Rebuttal+AotC Review+TPM Review] — Page 9

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Vaderisnothayden said:

Are you telling me that in all his reviews he cracks jokes about killing women?

I know! How annoying! Don't you just hate it when people get hung up on peripheral issues and absolutely refuse to let matters go? Geez!

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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And I've already expressed my view that satire is often cover for bigotry. It's not just my view alone.

This reminds me of the marriage counselor in Forget Paris who believed marriage was institutionalized rape.

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

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Akwat Kbrana said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Are you telling me that in all his reviews he cracks jokes about killing women?

I know! How annoying! Don't you just hate it when people get hung up on peripheral issues and absolutely refuse to let matters go? Geez!

Misogyny is a serious issue and deserves to be addressed. Maybe you'd prefer to sweep it under the carpet, but I don't agree.

And for the record, I'd have been quite happy to let it go ages ago if other people would have let it go, but they've constantly come back telling me my view is mistaken. It should come as no surprise that I'd want to keep defending my view as long as it's being attacked. If they'd have shut up about it I would have done so too.

Ok, I've PMed Bingowings and asked if we could stop discussing the issue on the thread. Happy now?

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vote_for_palpatine said:

And I've already expressed my view that satire is often cover for bigotry. It's not just my view alone.

This reminds me of the marriage counselor in Forget Paris who believed marriage was institutionalized rape.

 Ok, so maybe I should have said "sometimes" rather than "often".

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Don't shoot none!  Um.....RedLetterMedia!  Yeah!

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Maybe you are.

Oh for crying out loud please comment on his observations, we know what you think of his presentation style.

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Already commented on his observations. Wasn't impressed with his take on the characters (Padme and Qui Gon). Felt his views were lacking in perception there. As for his habit of going through the whole thing saying this doesn't make sense and this doesn't make sense, I think that's a rather small-minded way of doing a review. Or at least a 70 minute review. It was ok in Confused Matthew's reviews. But there's so much more to discuss that isn't discussed. Except he was right about the lightsaber battles. But for all the time the review takes up there's surprisingly little in it. Good reason not to waste time on pointless "humor". I know people who've quit watching part-way through due to the "humor".

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If you have commented fully on his observations and fully on your reaction to his delivery have you got anything to add to this thread?

Surely you have said it all by now?

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I don't come and go at your beck and call, Bingowings.

And if we were to go by that standard (that I should leave because you think I've said everything I have to say), shouldn't you be leaving the thread too by now? Shouldn't a lot of the posters here, having already expressed their views on the review? Wouldn't be much of a thread going on if people followed that.

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Ah, civility, thou art a gem.

Every 27th customer will get a ball-peen hammer, free!

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You know, I watched the guys critique of First Contact, and was less than impressed, as someone who is both a casual Trek fan and someone who found his review of TPM excellent.

This has to do mainly with the bottom line that FC is a film with very good drama, acting and characters. It doesn't mesh well with the series, which is his main point, but the ST continuity is so constricted that I find the ones that deviate the most are the best because of this--they give a chance to re-invent and go with what works best for the drama, rather than honoring a million references in the hundreds of episodes that pre-date it. Wrath of Khan for example tosses aside most of the continuity of the series, and would be in RLM's terms "just an action movie." In fact, the entire introductory set-up involving Checkov doesn't make any sense, since the character didn't exist in the series during "Space Seed." It reminds me of the fact that the entire premise of Citizen Kane is based on a flaw, that no one is around to hear Kane's deathbed utterance. Star Wars too has its share of these sorts of things.

The difference is that the power of the characters and the drama work in such a way that either you don't notice through the dramatic sleight-of-hand, or you are so wrapped up that you don't care, or both. TPM failed to achieve any of the aforementioned factors for a lot of people, which is why its failings stick out so much on repeat viewings. FC, on the other hand, worked, even if when you break it down there are some inconsistencies and gaps in the plot. I think this applies to basically every successful (or not successful) film.

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Ghost said:

I still dont see why you guys are going on about the "humor" in this review.  We are here to discuss the Star Wars movies and ways to make them better.  Not here to discuss a fan edit of a hardly known, fan-made review of TPM.  Lets take his good points out of his review, and move them into dicussion on this thread.  Who cares about the other stuff.

If anything, we should all be glad he made this review, its a little step toward a potenial watchable edit of TPM.  ;)

Kind of ironic in the course of the years this forum has gone from "trying to preserve Star Wars how it originally was, flaws and all" to "trying to make Star Wars better".

Forgot some people were still on about making a watchable edit of TPM. Trust me, with the edits already available, it has gotten as watchable as it ever will. And even that is not enough for me to ever want to watch it again (and I have made it no secret that it is my absolute favorite PT film).

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

Ghost said:

I still dont see why you guys are going on about the "humor" in this review.  We are here to discuss the Star Wars movies and ways to make them better.  Not here to discuss a fan edit of a hardly known, fan-made review of TPM.  Lets take his good points out of his review, and move them into dicussion on this thread.  Who cares about the other stuff.

If anything, we should all be glad he made this review, its a little step toward a potenial watchable edit of TPM.  ;)

Kind of ironic in the course of the years this forum has gone from "trying to preserve Star Wars how it originally was, flaws and all" to "trying to make Star Wars better".

Forgot some people were still on about making a watchable edit of TPM. Trust me, with the edits already available, it has gotten as watchable as it ever will. And even that is not enough for me to ever want to watch it again (and I have made it no secret that it is my absolute favorite PT film).

Making Menace a good film rather than just a tolerably meh crap film, good luck with that.  There is zero chance since it is supposed to be done at the writing stage of the script, and the choice of directors and actors.

Could the prequels be redone by Better directors, writers and actors, yes.  Wood i care to watch them probably not the original prequels would have already ruined the experience for me.

Like fans wanting the original trilogy made and rebooted for a modern mindset to make them cooler and hip with the teen crowd like JJ did with Star Trek i would totally boycott any such attempt.  I mean they would probably have Shia Lebouf as Han Solo, and either Hayden Christensen or Chris Pine for Luke Skywalker and there would be shaky cam and lens flares and lots of flashy video game graphics. Leia would be played by Keira Knightly, or Natalie Portman, or worse case scenario Megan Fox,lol.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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RedLetterMedia, will you be my Valentine?

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zombie84 said:

This has to do mainly with the bottom line that FC is a film with very good drama, acting and characters. It doesn't mesh well with the series, which is his main point, but the ST continuity is so constricted that I find the ones that deviate the most are the best because of this--they give a chance to re-invent and go with what works best for the drama, rather than honoring a million references in the hundreds of episodes that pre-date it.

His biggest gripes seemed to be about Picard's character, which is a very valid point. He is WAY out of character in all the films. Instead of the Earl Grey sipping, classic listening, diplomacy over violence, intellect over muscle character he is in the TV series, they have turned him into an action hero. And there are actually less than a handful of Borg episodes in the entire run of The Next Generation (I think there are six Borg episodes, if you count two part episodes as two episodes, and only four episodes if you don't), so you don't really have to dig through a whole lot of material to see how silly it is that Picard has suddenly grown an intense desire for revenge on the Borg after only a few years earlier he made a concious decision that it would be wrong to introduce a virus into the collective that would wipe them out.

His other major grip that I remember was how the away team wears era clothing and goes through all the trouble of blending in, while at the same time they don't shy away from bringing the weird android or flashing around space aged technology or even happily sharing stories with people about the future.

Wrath of Khan for example tosses aside most of the continuity of the series, and would be in RLM's terms "just an action movie." In fact, the entire introductory set-up involving Checkov doesn't make any sense, since the character didn't exist in the series during "Space Seed."

RLM actually spends a lot of time praising Wrath of Khan in his Nemesis review. I think he'd actually agree with you about the changes in continuity not being important in The Wrath of Khan because the other elements make up for it. You have to admit, Wrath of Khan has a lot more substance to it than any of the TNG films.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

zombie84 said:

This has to do mainly with the bottom line that FC is a film with very good drama, acting and characters. It doesn't mesh well with the series, which is his main point, but the ST continuity is so constricted that I find the ones that deviate the most are the best because of this--they give a chance to re-invent and go with what works best for the drama, rather than honoring a million references in the hundreds of episodes that pre-date it.

His biggest gripes seemed to be about Picard's character, which is a very valid point. He is WAY out of character in all the films. Instead of the Earl Grey sipping, classic listening, diplomacy over violence, intellect over muscle character he is in the TV series, they have turned him into an action hero. And there are actually less than a handful of Borg episodes in the entire run of The Next Generation (I think there are six Borg episodes, if you count two part episodes as two episodes, and only four episodes if you don't), so you don't really have to dig through a whole lot of material to see how silly it is that Picard has suddenly grown an intense desire for revenge on the Borg after only a few years earlier he made a concious decision that it would be wrong to introduce a virus into the collective that would wipe them out.

This was done on Patrick Stewarts urging that Picard be a swashbuckler in the films.  Why do they listen to actors remember star trek V.

They basically turned him into a Kirk like character.  Maybe it was the influence of Kirk in Generations, but that would be quite a stretch, or his experience being borged changed him as a person.

Actually as a cadet if i remember Picard was like Kirk, even a bit like Kirk from the new movie. Fighting Nausicans in bars and remancing women.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Seems like everytime they listen to the actors, filums get ruined. :(

Terminator: Salvation being the most recent example to come to mind.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Well, I can't speak for the other TNG films, since they aren't very good, but as for FC's re-invention of Picard--it worked. It was a better direction. That's all it really boils down to. I realise it is out of place with the utopian socialist pacificism of TNG, but I always felt that was the series' biggest flaw and here was a vision of a human being that felt believable. Take that continuity!

Its much like "I am your father" the biggest ret-con in history. But dramatically, it works.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Why do they listen to actors remember star trek V.

Wait, which actors remember Star Trek V?  And who is listening to those actors remember the filum?

none, there is a lot of competition for most awesomest thread right now.  This thread is pretty high up there.

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Akwat Kbrana said:

Ah, civility, thou art a gem.

Find something more original to do than going around sniping at me. That's already been done. And for the record, I was more than civil enough to Bingo, considering he was basically telling me to fuck off from the thread.

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C3PX said:

 

You have to admit, Wrath of Khan has a lot more substance to it than any of the TNG films.

I don't agree. Spock's sacrifice had depth, but otherwise Khan was a crap movie (ok, Saavik was good, but other than that). Overrated in the extreme. With the TOS movies, each movie is better than one before it, with 6 being the best. And yes I am saying 5 was the second best. It's not a great movie, but it's an improvement on the ones before. 6 is the only good TOS movie. The TNG movies have various levels of quality, but I think the last two were the best. Yes, that includes the much-maligned Nemesis. Insurrection had some emotional depth. Generations was a disappointment. First Contact was ok. I'm not bothered by Picard getting more action heroey. Seeing as the movies all happen after the tv series, maybe he changed in character after the end of the show. People do change. From what I'm hearing about RLM's comments on Trek movies, it doesn't sound like I'd agree with his trek reviews either. I still can't believe he said Qui Gon has no personality. Lack of perception.

Leia would be played by Keira Knightly, or Natalie Portman, or worse case scenario Megan Fox,lol.

Megan Fox as Leia? The stuff of nightmares!

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I thought he opinion was all the prequel character are like cardboard cutouts and don't stand out as people, and are one dimensional which i agree with by the way.  I disagree with his views of avatar and star trek.  But he was spot on for a lot of episode 1's crimes against real star wars.

I did not really like Liam as Qui Gon.  Which is interesting because he was good in Schindlers List, and Rob Roy.  He had the same problem as all the prequel jedi to me.  Like you said once the jedi in the prequels were prententiousness striking poses, and i agree with that.

Mace, Yoda, Obi Wan, Qui Gon.  Qui Gon may be the least of these but still not oot concept of the jedi.  In fact he was a new character who never was outlined in the oot of prequels outlined which we never saw,lol.

I thought Macgregor did an excellent Job with what he was given to work with in revenge of the sith, but it really is not a mark against him he could not pull off Alec Guiness, what actor could?

I thought he was awful in the first 2 prequels though.  Also the Jedi were smug and arrogant and unlikeable wanting to make you hate them and cheer on the order 66 killings.

The worst idea of all was making Hayden Skywalker a jedi master in the clone wars cartoon, just amazingly stupid.  Even if voiced by someone else than hayden that is not Anakin Skywalker so why i distinguish him as hayden skywalker.

Of all the characters ruined.  The treatment of yoda in all three was awful, especially in II and III.  And III made the Emporer into such a bad cartoon joke that made return of the jedi's over acting oscar worthy.

Stupid to give the Emperor and Yoda lightsabers.  Just for more pointless lightsaber duels.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

I thought he opinion was all the prequel character are like cardboard cutouts and don't stand out as people, and are one dimensional which i agree with by the way.  I disagree with his views of avatar and star trek.  But he was spot on for a lot of episode 1's crimes against real star wars.

I did not really like Liam as Qui Gon.  Which is interesting because he was good in Schindlers List, and Rob Roy.  He had the same problem as all the prequel jedi to me.  Like you said once the jedi in the prequels were prententiousness striking poses, and i agree with that.

Mace, Yoda, Obi Wan, Qui Gon.  Qui Gon may be the least of these but still not oot concept of the jedi.  In fact he was a new character who never was outlined in the oot of prequels outlined which we never saw,lol.

I thought Macgregor did an excellent Job with what he was given to work with in revenge of the sith, but it really is not a mark against him he could not pull off Alec Guiness, what actor could?

 I thought he opinion was all the prequel character are like cardboard cutouts and don't stand out as people, and are one dimensional which i agree with by the way. 

That's the characters in the later two prequels. In TPM some characters work.

I did not really like Liam as Qui Gon.  Which is interesting because he was good in Schindlers List, and Rob Roy.  He had the same problem as all the prequel jedi to me.  Like you said once the jedi in the prequels were prententiousness striking poses, and i agree with that.

And there's a hint of that with even Qui Gon, but he's way better than the rest of them. Neeson does a great job with the role and gives the character real personality. 

Mace, Yoda, Obi Wan, Qui Gon.  Qui Gon may be the least of these but still not oot concept of the jedi.  In fact he was a new character who never was outlined in the oot of prequels outlined which we never saw,lol.

Qui Gon was a prequel-style jedi, but better than the others and superbly acted by Neeson. He was the best thing in TPM.

I thought Macgregor did an excellent Job with what he was given to work with in revenge of the sith, but it really is not a mark against him he could not pull off Alec Guiness, what actor could?

Ewan was ok in TPM, but in AOTC he was artificial and in ROTC he was bland. His character in AOTC and ROTS certainly qualifies for the cardboard cutout description.