LOST — Page 16

doubleofive said:

xhonzi said:

At the very beginning of the episode, Sayid appears to be much worse off than Juliet, yet they can't get her to the pool fast enough...

Well, Juliet has her own show on the same network, so she HAD to die! ;-)

That's all I mean.  It felt dictated by elements beyond the show rather than the logic of the show itself.  Sort of like Shanon not being on the plane. :)

Lost2007 would be unmodified, as Sun and Lepidus have never traveled in time after leaving and coming back.  The explosion must have reset the time skippers back to Lost2007 (as they inhabit the same Island that Lepidus made a landing on) while at the same time creating Alt2004.

 It's obviously modified to the point that Sun saw a picture of Jin from 1974.  And what of the Swan?  Is the Swan in Lost2007 simply the result of Desmond's actions?  Or of the incident too?

I'm of the opinion that Jin was always in 1974 in the normal timeline, we just didn't know it.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.  Faraday said, "What happened, happened."  You can't change history.  So, Jin was always in 1974.  But then Faraday says, "We can change it!"  So the pocket of negative energy DOESN'T always create the need for the button, the unpushing of which doesn't cause 815 to not crash and not bring the castaways to the island.  Hence the difference between Lost2004 and Alt2004.  So what else is different between the "Lost" timeline and the AltTimeline?  More importantly, are there differences between the "Lost" timeline and the 2007 we saw last night?  The Swan?  When last we saw the imploded Swan in the Lost timeline... it looked like this:

Notice the lack of debris in the center and the height of the crater wallls.

This is the construction site (obviously).  I can't find any pictures from the 2007 crater from last night's episode, but it can't be exactly either of these other two timeline's craters.  If it's the wreck of the construction site, then it is the Alt2007 version of the crater where there was no plane crash.  Or if it is the Lost2007 version, there wouldn't be all of that debris in the centre of the hole.

This is the conclusion that I have come to:
The Dharma van and all of the Dharma jumpsuits people are wearing and the bullet in Sayid's gut are all artifacts of the Alt1977 -> Lost2007 time jump.  The van is there because Hurley and Jin were in it.  The debris is there because Juliet was in it.

Everything in 1974-1977 time frame "Happened Happened" until the point where Faraday decides they can change things afterall.  As soon as he says "Happened maybe happened" the Alt timeline was created.  A 1977 where they did nothing and a 1977 where they blew the pocket of energy.  The one where they did nothing leads to Lost2004 and Lost2007 where the plane crashes etc... and the one where they blew the detonator leads to Alt2004 where the plane lands at LAX.

Or it's a third timeline.  But I don't want to talk about that.

Regarding the differences between the 815 flight in Lost2004 and Alt2004.  It would be my guess that the differences surrounding Locke's knives and Christian's casket etc are part of fate manipulating events to get them back to the island one way or another.

Well, I've never been one to over anaylize the show too much (though I have gotten caught up in speculation to a small degree in times past), so I can't really participate much in the current xhonzi/doubleo5 discussion, but I do have to say I really enjoyed this episode and I think I really like the direction it seems to be heading (which is the opposite of how I felt at the end of last seasons finale). Hopefully in a few weeks the newness of the season will wear off and I'll be able to lose enough interest in the show to not watch it for several weeks (happened the last couple of seasons) and I'll end up with a nice little backlog of episodes to catch up on over some weekend, I have always found the show far more enjoyable when you are able to consume it in larger chunks.

Watching one episode of Lost at a time feels much like eating just one M&M. It leaves a nice little taste in your mouth, but ultimately, it is unsatisfying and just leaves your mouth watering and craving for more. M&Ms just aren't worth it for less than a handful or a small bowl; the pleasure given by one little piece is far outweighed by the discomfort following not having anymore, but wanting more. I feel kind of the same way about Lost.

Only problem is, it is such a popular show and it generates so much discussion, you're likely to run into spoilers while waiting in line at the grocery store (this happened to me once last season, and once a few seasons ago as well; very annoying) or any number of other unsuspecting places where you find yourself in earshot of other human beings. 

This little exchanged happened to me last season as well during a phone conversation with a friend:

FRIEND: Did you see the last episode of Lost.
ME: I haven't.
FRIEND: I can't believe they killed off Daniel.
ME: I said I HAVEN'T SEEN IT yet!
FRIEND: Oh, I thought you said you had. Sorry, I'm in the car, it is hard to hear.

Its just so much fun to speculate and discuss that I have to watch the episodes one at a time.  Watching the first season straight through was great, but I wouldn't give up these discussions for anything.

xhonzi said:

Regarding the differences between the 815 flight in Lost2004 and Alt2004.  It would be my guess that the differences surrounding Locke's knives and Christian's casket etc are part of fate manipulating events to get them back to the island one way or another.

But the Island is underwater.  It throws a monkey wrench into all of my "we have to go back... again/for the first time!" theories.

doubleofive said:

Its just so much fun to speculate and discuss that I have to watch the episodes one at a time.  Watching the first season straight through was great, but I wouldn't give up these discussions for anything.

I used to watch it in clumps too.  We started watching after season 2, so we watched the first two on DVD.  After that, we'd let several buffer on the DVR and watch 2-3 episode marathons.  But then we started this group at work, and I have to agree with 005's assessment: discussing it is way more fun than watching it, so you're missing out on too much if you don't watch it in realtime.

xhonzi said:

Regarding the differences between the 815 flight in Lost2004 and Alt2004.  It would be my guess that the differences surrounding Locke's knives and Christian's casket etc are part of fate manipulating events to get them back to the island one way or another.

But the Island is underwater.  It throws a monkey wrench into all of my "we have to go back... again/for the first time!" theories.

 True.  But the ocean is wet... we could dry up the wetness with a heating fan, but it would have to be larger than the ocean.  Hmmm, yess,  Imagine that!  A heating fan the size of Africa.  That. Would. Be. Something!

The Island is Underwater in the alt reality, and in past episode (or episodes) someone (Shannon?) saw a ghost / vision of Walt all wet in a drowning like state. Could there be a link.  Could people in one reality have been trying to communicate with people in an other all along? This is why Hugo sees so called dead people like Dave, Charlie, Anna Lucia, and now Jacob?

This show is a blast...

Hmmm... that could explain the whispers in the jungle too...

If we didn't have the definitive answer for the whispers already, I am pretty sure they intended to drive away all doubt in the last episode where we hear the whispers and Jack bewilderdly watches all of his companions silently disappear before being nabbed by an "other" himself. If that isn't enough to convince us that the whispers in the jungle were the others all along, then I don't think anything will.

If so... LAME!

The whispers are just people whispering...?

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!

xhonzi said:

The whispers are just people whispering...?

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!

Wow, I am thinking we've got some unrealistic expectations to deal with. They are just whispers of a weird and mysterious group of people who possess amazing strength and a strange ability to zip around very fast and silently.

I've nothing to add cos I'm confused as hell...But man, I love this show.

Johnny Ringo said:

I'm just wondering if there's much to the fact that they focused on Some characters circa the flight but not others, ie: why Boon and not walt?

I'd think this would be pretty obvious. This is a TV show, and there are only so many elements within their control. It'd be hard (not to mention kind of lame) to find another actor that looks like the kid who played Walt did at that age, and they obviously can't use the same actor, as he is much older now (remember, this thing started back in 2004).

The reason they focused on Boone, was that they could get a hold of that actor (and it made a nice little moment where he tells Locke that if he were even in a survival situation, he'd want to stick around him). It would have been cool if they had brought back the entire season one and two cast. Would have loved to have seen Echo and Ana Lucia on the plane as well as many of the other characters we have long forgotten about, but it is understandable that they didn't.

There is also really no logical reason, that I can think of, why Shannon wouldn't be on the plane because of the destruction of the island, I am sure her absence had a lot to do with not being able/wanting to get the actress to come back, but they did a good job of using it as another way to show how things had changed this time.

My thoughts on Season 6 so far:

The alternate timeline is real and running concurrently with the Island timeline. I think we must assume that the bomb worked and sunk the island in that version. Obviously from the differences between ep 1 and what we have seen this season, the butterfly effect has altered things there somewhat.

The problem is, for the bomb to work and sink the island, somebody had to detonate it, but if Jack etc never crashed on the island and therefore never went back to the seventies, they couldn't have detonated it.  The creation of a parallel timeline resolves this... it seems that all the characters in the parallel universe will now come together in a different way (eg Locke getting a spinal consultation from Jack)... perhaps they will eventually end up on the island by different means because that was always their fate.  They can then go back to the seventies and detonate the bomb, completing the cycle.  However... the island is now at the bottom of the sea, so that can't happen...

I know this has all been said by others... just trying to sum it up for myself really.

I am rapidly catching up this show, as I have (embarrasingly) belatedly discovered the watch-for-free option on abc.com. I have watched seasons one and two, and this show is as good as advertised.

And Evangeline Lilly, who was the first woman listed on my "Hot Women That Just Don't Do It For You" thread, has absolutely nothing on her hips whatsoever. No junk in the trunk, sadly. She is the fourth-hottest woman on that show (Sun, Shannon, Claire).

vote_for_palpatine said:

I have watched seasons one and two, and this show is as good as advertised.

Hi, I am C3PX, and I approve this message.

I don't know if Kate is really a good looker or not... there's no amount of looks for which I would put up with all of that CRAZY!

VFP- Watch out for ABC... they will pull episodes at the worst times.

My thoughts/questions on E3: What Kate does-
Is Sayid himself?  What does Miles know about Sayid's "death"?
Is Ethan still a part of DHARMA?  In the (alt)1977, DHARMA evacuated most everyone off the island so Ethan never helped Ben gas DHARMA.  Instead, Ethan left with his mother as a 1 year old.  Did she go back to Ann Arbor DHARMA?  If so, how/why is Ethan out in LA?

Are the coincidences in alt2004 just that?  Do people do the same thing more or less regardless of the circumstances (Kate taking care of Claire, Claire chosing the name Aaron for Turniphead) Or do people have odd memory leakage from the original timeline?

Was Desmond on the plane the whole time?  Are the changes in alt2004 permanent?  Or are they also changing... probably being sucked back into the original configuration and alt2004 will be a "course correcting" timeline?

Does 2007 Claire look like Rousseau because the island is causing her to perform the "Rousseau Role"? 

I think that's it for now.

So... Tuesday's episode:

Who was the kid?
Whose list was on the cave ceiling?
Do the names have The Numbers next to them... or do the numbers have The Names next to them?
Who wants to see a spin-off show about Locke and Ben as history teachers?
If the alt2004 is "course-correcting" as we watch it... is it possible that like Desmond who was on the plane and then off of it again- that Locke actually DID go on the Walkabout when he was telling Boone about it and then as the plane landed (and Desmond had disappeared) that his legs stopped working, he needed the wheelchair, and he, at that point, didn't go on the walkabout.
If Cooper didn't push him out the window to cause his back injury/paralyzation... what did?
Is the alt2004 timeline different not only because of the bomb, but did Jacob not touch the Losties in that timeline?  Is that why Locke is happy, Hugo is lucky, Kate didn't kill her father, and Sawyer (potentially) is not a Con man?
(Who wants to see a spin-off show where every week Sawyer tries to Con Hurley out of his millions, but is foiled until the next week?)
If the Valenzetti equation is about manipulating the "variables" (4 8 15 16 23 42) to prevent the end of the world, does the number next to the names in the cave mean that those 6 people are the actual "variables" that must be manipulated to prevent the end of the world?  Without Jacob's touch, are those people unmanipulated and will the alt2004 timeline end with the end of the world?

xhonzi said:

So... Tuesday's episode:

Who was the kid?

Beats me.  Spirit of Jacob as a kid to throw us off?

Whose list was on the cave ceiling?

MIB said Jacob's.

Do the names have The Numbers next to them... or do the numbers have The Names next to them?

ooooo, good point.

Who wants to see a spin-off show about Locke and Ben as history teachers?

A modern Odd Couple.  Genius!

If the alt2004 is "course-correcting" as we watch it... is it possible that like Desmond who was on the plane and then off of it again- that Locke actually DID go on the Walkabout when he was telling Boone about it and then as the plane landed (and Desmond had disappeared) that his legs stopped working, he needed the wheelchair, and he, at that point, didn't go on the walkabout.

Whoa, that would prove interesting.

If Cooper didn't push him out the window to cause his back injury/paralyzation... what did?

Car crash?

Is the alt2004 timeline different not only because of the bomb, but did Jacob not touch the Losties in that timeline?  Is that why Locke is happy, Hugo is lucky, Kate didn't kill her father, and Sawyer (potentially) is not a Con man?

It seems that way, but did Jacob meet with Hurley before he gave him the guitar case in 2007?  I can't remember.  Because Hurley was WAY unlucky before then.

(Who wants to see a spin-off show where every week Sawyer tries to Con Hurley out of his millions, but is foiled until the next week?)

Another genius idea!  You should work for ABC!

If the Valenzetti equation is about manipulating the "variables" (4 8 15 16 23 42) to prevent the end of the world, does the number next to the names in the cave mean that those 6 people are the actual "variables" that must be manipulated to prevent the end of the world?  Without Jacob's touch, are those people unmanipulated and will the alt2004 timeline end with the end of the world?

Makes perfect sense to me.  There is plenty of manipulation going on with those characters.  Most of it by the Smoke Monster, oddly enough.

After weeks of catching up I finally watched my first episode in its scheduled time tonight - and C3PX was right on when he said this:

I have always found the show far more enjoyable when you are able to consume it in larger chunks.

Me too. Also, when watching on my laptop I pay closer attention than when I'm watching on my TV at home. Too many distractions.

Anyone else see a disappointing finale on the way? It seems like it took far too long for Sawyer to go dark. Kind of similar to the long-delayed conversion of Anakin Skywalker.

Welcome to live-hood.  The only fun about watching them in singles is the ability to come and talk about it here with us!

You can find my live-blog-like thoughts as I watch the episodes here:

http://doubleofive.wordpress.com/category/lost/

I agree, we're nearly a dozen episodes from the end and the pattern of 1 answer to 10 more questions continues.  They need to start pushing that ratio more towards the "answers" like from next week on.