RedLetterMedia's Revenge of Nadine [TPM 108 pg Resp. [RotS Review+RotS Preview+ST'09 Reveiw+Next Review Teaser+2002 Interview+AotC OutTakes+Noooooo! Doc.+SW Examiner Rebuttal+AotC Review+TPM Review] — Page 7

Vaderisnothayden said:

Bingowings said:

The humour is only misogynist if he is being serious, which clearly he isn't.

As to bad taste that's subjective (just like his opinions).

As I said earlier there is a difference between Warren Mitchell playing a bigot and Warren Mitchell being a bigot.

Certain types of things are misogynistic even when they're meant as humor. The humor here is clearly misogynistic. Clearly he is not being serious about keeping women tied up in his basement, but putting it forward as a joke is misogynistic. And humor is often used as cover for bigotry, such as in various comedians' routines -fake bigotry that really is real bigotry.

What utter twaddle.

So The Great Dictator is a pro-fascist film?

The French and Saunders Silence Of The Lambs skits are psychotic tracts?

I suppose Withnail And I is a two hour advert for alcoholism.

Bingowings said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Bingowings said:

The humour is only misogynist if he is being serious, which clearly he isn't.

As to bad taste that's subjective (just like his opinions).

As I said earlier there is a difference between Warren Mitchell playing a bigot and Warren Mitchell being a bigot.

Certain types of things are misogynistic even when they're meant as humor. The humor here is clearly misogynistic. Clearly he is not being serious about keeping women tied up in his basement, but putting it forward as a joke is misogynistic. And humor is often used as cover for bigotry, such as in various comedians' routines -fake bigotry that really is real bigotry.

What utter twaddle.

So The Great Dictator is a pro-fascist film?

The French and Saunders Silence Of The Lambs skits are psychotic traits?

I suppose Withnail And I is a two hour advert for alcoholism.

Did I say it was the case for all works? Nope. Not all humor is the same thing or works the same way. Some satire is just satire and some satire is just cover for bigotry. Just because it's true of one work doesn't mean it's true of another. Like I said, I never said it applied to all works, so it's unfair to act as if I did. But RedLetter watchamacallim's humor is certainly misogynistic. Making jokes like that is misogynistic. "It's a joke" is the constant excuse people hide behind when their bigoted "jokes" are criticised. It doesn't wash. I think if the posters here included more women you'd find a higher proportion of people here offended by his "humor" because men on average find it easier to avoid being offended by misogyny and to refuse to acknowledge when misogyny is afoot. Put it simply, if you were a woman you might not be so ok with his "humor".

I actually side with VINH on this one.  You can play a character without being anti-woman.  You can play a serial killer without making it about your wife.  It could have been done a little more gently and it still would have made the point (and been funny).  The few jokes he did like this are the reason I won't be showing it to my wife.

Still think the rest of it was great, however.

Vaderisnothayden said:

Bingowings said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Bingowings said:

The humour is only misogynist if he is being serious, which clearly he isn't.

As to bad taste that's subjective (just like his opinions).

As I said earlier there is a difference between Warren Mitchell playing a bigot and Warren Mitchell being a bigot.

Certain types of things are misogynistic even when they're meant as humor. The humor here is clearly misogynistic. Clearly he is not being serious about keeping women tied up in his basement, but putting it forward as a joke is misogynistic. And humor is often used as cover for bigotry, such as in various comedians' routines -fake bigotry that really is real bigotry.

What utter twaddle.

So The Great Dictator is a pro-fascist film?

The French and Saunders Silence Of The Lambs skits are psychotic traits?

I suppose Withnail And I is a two hour advert for alcoholism.

Did I say it was the case for all works? Nope. Not all humor is the same thing or works the same way. Some satire is just satire and some satire is just cover for bigotry. Just because it's true of one work doesn't mean it's true of another. Like I said, I never said it applied to all works, so it's unfair to act as if I did. But RedLetter watchamacallim's humor is certainly misogynistic. Making jokes like that is misogynistic. "It's a joke" is the constant excuse people hide behind when their bigoted "jokes" are criticised. It doesn't wash. I think if the posters here included more women you'd find a higher proportion of people here offended by his "humor" because men on average find it easier to avoid being offended by misogyny and to refuse to acknowledge when misogyny is afoot. Put it simply, if you were a woman you might not be so ok with his "humor".

If you were a man you might not be ok with his "humour", if you were a woman you might find him hilarious.

Taste is subjective and follows no gender stereotype.

You are so hilariously wrong in this matter I am tempted to think you are pulling my leg about it.

You make it sound like you know this guy personally and that your certainty of his guilt is based on some kind of inside knowledge.

I feel safe in the assumption that no ex-wives, sons, cheerleaders or sex workers were killed in the making of these reviews.

Nor do I believe he harbors secret ambitions to take up mass murder either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJarz7BYnHA&feature=player_embedded

RedLetterMedia's take on Avatar.

Bingowings said:

If you were a man you might not be ok with his "humour", if you were a woman you might find him hilarious.

Taste is subjective and follows no gender stereotype.

You are so hilariously wrong in this matter I am tempted to think you are pulling my leg about it.

You make it sound like you know this guy personally and that your certainty of his guilt is based on some kind of inside knowledge.

I feel safe in the assumption that no ex-wives, sons, cheerleaders or sex workers were killed in the making of these reviews.

Nor do I believe he harbors secret ambitions to take up mass murder either.

Sorry Bingo, but I don't buy it.  Sure, a man might not be ok with the humor (as VINH and I are not), and yeah, some women might be ok with it.  But you can't really think that a lot of women won't have a problem with rape and wife-killing jokes. 

Rape and wife-killing are gender issues, because male-rape (i.e. the man is the victim) and husband-killing aren't anywhere near as common (at least as far as I can tell).

No one thinks this guy is guilty of these crimes.  No one thinks he ok with doing these things.  But he obviously thinks they are funny, at least in the context he's presented them.  And I didn't agree.

TV's Frink said:

Bingowings said:

If you were a man you might not be ok with his "humour", if you were a woman you might find him hilarious.

Taste is subjective and follows no gender stereotype.

You are so hilariously wrong in this matter I am tempted to think you are pulling my leg about it.

You make it sound like you know this guy personally and that your certainty of his guilt is based on some kind of inside knowledge.

I feel safe in the assumption that no ex-wives, sons, cheerleaders or sex workers were killed in the making of these reviews.

Nor do I believe he harbors secret ambitions to take up mass murder either.

Sorry Bingo, but I don't buy it.  Sure, a man might not be ok with the humor (as VINH and I are not), and yeah, some women might be ok with it.  But you can't really think that a lot of women won't have a problem with rape and wife-killing jokes.

Rape and wife-killing are gender issues, because male-rape (i.e. the man is the victim) and husband-killing aren't anywhere near as common (at least as far as I can tell).

No one thinks this guy is guilty of these crimes.  No one thinks he ok with doing these things.  But he obviously thinks they are funny, at least in the context he's presented them.  And I didn't agree.

For one thing they aren't rape and wife killing jokes, as in joking about actually raping someone or killing his wife, he is playing a character and for another thing a large number of people of either gender would not appreciate the humour and find it distasteful (gender isn't an issue there men and women would dislike or like these jokes with equal measure).

A lot of people really can't stand films like Blood For Dracula which has scenes of fictional rape and it is to some hilariously funny. One of the biggest fans of this film I've met was a woman, in fact most of the people I know who have seen it are women.

On the flip side Top Secret! is very popular with heterosexual male friends of mine and it has jokes about male rape (not just jokes but a largish subplot) and in that film it commits the now verboten in relationship to depictions of female rape of making out that the young boy enjoyed it and ended up being turned on by it in later life, all in the name of comedy.

The jokes in those reviews are pastiches of the sort of serial killer in films like Silence Of The Lambs and Seven.

Those films have been sent up on mainstream television sometimes by female comedians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha7EB5Y_RT0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_qx8D8OJlQ

I really don't see that these reviews are misogynist they are sending up an idiom in fiction and while it might not be to everyone's taste  but assuming that the reviewer hates women or has some subconscious sinister attitude to women based only on these reviews as evidence is laughably bizarre.

I wonder what the women who work with him in his reviews and in his films would make of such a claim?

They clearly appreciate the humour or they wouldn't appear in the reviews (I don't get the impression he is in a position to offer large financial incentives).

I agree with Bingowings on this one - for the first time ever.  :-)  The humor here is entirely a matter of taste.  Whether those who are making misogynistic (sexist, racist whatever) jokes really are any of those things, or simply find them amusing, is something no one can else can ultimately tell, and it's irrelevant anyway.  

People are always going to find other people's views and humor offensive, but if people wish (as I do) to live in a world with free speech, we're going to have to learn to deal with being offended every now and then.  It won't kill us.  If we don't like it, we can switch off.

His humor is my kind of humor I must confess. I like the idea of a brainless, stupid, dangerous and horrible geek person making "expert" movie reviews. I think it's fun. I don't mind the basement scene but it is a bit distracting and too long. I like his "ex wife" and family jokes because they are just quick lines. When he starts making little movies inside the reviews, I don't think he is as funny. You know, it's like those stand up comedians, so hilarious when they are on stage, but usualy kind of average on movies.

Ric Olie said:

I hated this review.  He took an unfair shot at Ric and Ric.

Two pages later, C3PX said:

"Fuck you Rick Berman! You ruined this too! Stop ruining mo-- Wait a minute... that ain't Rick Berman! What is it with Ricks?"

Freakin' hilarious! That was so funny it brought tears to my eyes. Phew...

Hilarious?  It brought tears to my eyes too, but only because it was so offensive.

And you spelled "Ric" wrong, BTW.

TMBTM said:

His humor is my kind of humor I must confess. I like the idea of a brainless, stupid, dangerous and horrible geek person making "expert" movie reviews. I think it's fun. I don't mind the basement scene but it is a bit distracting and too long. I like his "ex wife" and family jokes because they are just quick lines. When he starts making little movies inside the reviews, I don't think he is as funny. You know, it's like those stand up comedians, so hilarious when they are on stage, but usualy kind of average on movies.

My reading of his taking on this persona to make these reviews was that the archetype of the fanboy (or fangirl) who hangs around discussion forums passionately dissecting films, television and just about any aspect of cult culture is very similar to the archetype of the Hollywood serial killer.

They have their lairs full of fetishistic totems, they are isolated, insular, quiet in the outside world but if someone messes with their magic realm they become enraged and 'virtually' violent (we all have encountered people on discussion forums who appear to have or try to project more than one personality).

Neither archetype is 100% accurate but I can see the point he seemed to be making and it's a framework on which he has picked to hang his critique on.

He could have picked a similarly potentially offensive framing device like a Star Wars Jihadi extremist offended at the blasphemy of the PT (or the blasphemy of the Star Wars heretics who dare to question the orthodoxy of Almighty George) or he could have picked a character who wasn't potentially offensive at all (which is possibly impossible) or just delivered a conventional review (but even conventional film reviewers develop idioms which their audience become familiar with...A Mark Kermode review has certain definable traits that a Roger Ebert review does not).

Honestly, and speaking as a husband and the father of li'l girl, I did not find the misogyny offending at all. I wasn't even thinking in a serious mindset when I watched the thing, so the misogyny stuff didn't even stand out to me until some here pointed it out. I rarely notice anything offending or off-color when it is focused on being humorous. However, my line of work tends to make my sense of humor a little more morbid than most. I hella enjoyed the review and am looking forward to the next installment. 

It's disturbing to see people being ok with the misogyny in the review. But it's not surprising, because people in general need a lot more educating about the topic of misogyny. Lack of awareness and lack of understanding are major obstacles in fighting misogyny.

As for my saying women would be more likely to be bothered by the "humor" than men, I in way indicated that all women would feel one way or all men would feel another. Women and men are individuals. They all have their own individual reactions to things. For example, some men will be bothered by the "humor" and some women will like it. That said, not being the target of misogyny, men sometimes find it easier to be less offended by it (and having wives and mothers and sisters and daughters doesn't change that, because most men have some or all those people in their lives). The point was if it were targeted at you, you might find it not so funny or acceptable.

Humor doesn't excuse absolutely everything and nor does playing roles or whatever shit a person might want to try. What you find worthy of being presented as humor says something about you. And some things should not normally be used for humor.

But it's not misogyny just as this isn't :

Anyone else finding this threads misandry pushing them towards misanthropy or is it just the logomisia.  Maybe we all share misarchy, or there's a fear of miserotia plaguing the misanders and misogynists alike.  Misetes Misetos Misocainia.  MISOGELASTIC!!!!!  But seriously, you might share misologia for the misologist misologue which plagues this misohijacked thread.  It's OK.  What WE must not stand for is misology of misoneistic misomusistical misoneist MISOPOGONIST!  What would George think of us then.  what would George think of us then.  So rant about the misotyrannistic misotramontanist nomomisia of RedLetterMedia.  And by all means continue the misoscopist of the other side, it does misopsychia misozoeticus misozoia.  ok i lost track, your turn:

(Thanks = http://www.wordquests.info/cgi/ice2-for.cgi?file=/hsphere/local/home/scribejo/wordquests.info/htm/L-Gk-miso.htm&HIGHLIGHT=miso make your own!)

Jar Jar good buddy!  Miso happy to be seein youso.

Ric Olie said:

Jar Jar good buddy!  Miso happy to be seein youso.

Brilliant!  The last three posts made me laugh, and this thread really needed some levity. 

 

.

Vaderisnothayden said:

It's disturbing to see people being ok with the misogyny in the review. 

 I for one don't find violence/murder agaist women jokes to be funny. I also tend not to laugh at jokes about lynchings or child abuse... but that may just be me.

Bingowings said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Bingowings said:

The humour is only misogynist if he is being serious, which clearly he isn't.

Certain types of things are misogynistic even when they're meant as humor. The humor here is clearly misogynistic. Clearly he is not being serious about keeping women tied up in his basement, but putting it forward as a joke is misogynistic. And humor is often used as cover for bigotry, such as in various comedians' routines -fake bigotry that really is real bigotry.

What utter twaddle.

So The Great Dictator is a pro-fascist film?

 Come on Bingo.

Are you really comparing the satire of Charlie FREAKING Chaplin, one of the greatest comedians of all time, to this Star Wars dude's non-sequitor 'jokes' about torturing women in his basement?

(via: http://theworldsbestever.com/2010/02/03/darth-vader-was-a-freak-who-knew/darthvader-was-a-freak/)

TheBoost said:

Bingowings said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Bingowings said:

The humour is only misogynist if he is being serious, which clearly he isn't.

Certain types of things are misogynistic even when they're meant as humor. The humor here is clearly misogynistic. Clearly he is not being serious about keeping women tied up in his basement, but putting it forward as a joke is misogynistic. And humor is often used as cover for bigotry, such as in various comedians' routines -fake bigotry that really is real bigotry.

What utter twaddle.

So The Great Dictator is a pro-fascist film?

 Come on Bingo.

Are you really comparing the satire of Charlie FREAKING Chaplin, one of the greatest comedians of all time, to this Star Wars dude's non-sequitor 'jokes' about torturing women in his basement?

TheBoost said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

It's disturbing to see people being ok with the misogyny in the review. 

 I for one don't find violence/murder agaist women jokes to be funny. I also tend not to laugh at jokes about lynchings or child abuse... but that may just be me.

::nods:: Admiral Piett, or TheBoost as he calls himself here, gets what I'm talking about. As does Frink, judging from a post above.

@ none -  Incest and misogyny!