Hey, first of all my first scenario was a weird hypothetical, that if I was forced to vote between Bonds and Rose, I would vote for Bonds. But if I had a real-world vote, one I could give to (or withhold from) anyone, neither Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, nor any steroid cheat would get my vote. I agree with you that they cheated the game.

How can you tell for certain that Rose did that kind of thing?

I can't. But certainty is not necessary in this case. Since Pete Rose admitted to betting on baseball games, he has kept himself out by breaking the biggest of all baseball rules.