LOST — Page 15

Just one more: The Polar Bears.  The answer to the mystery of the polar bears was pretty logical... but it wasn't very magical or exciting.  The question was phrased, "Holy COW!  What kind of tropical island has POLAR BEARS ON IT???!?  The answer must be incredible...  The answer turned out to be: "Some scientists brought them to the island." 

Huh...

I remembered one more: Richard Alpert.  I suppose there's more to come on this guy, but again- I felt the mystery of the guy was really... mysterious.  Not only did he not age, but he seemed to be omniscient and omnipotent as well!  He knew John Locke would come to the island 30 years before it happened!  He made Juliette's ex get hit by a bus!

Turns out he was acting on information from a time traveling John Locke.  Yeah, it makes sense and it gives us the very cool pocket watch loop... but it's kind of a lame handling of Alpert.  He's just not as cool as he used to be.  Throughout most of season 5, he seemed like he was kind of stupid.

Hopefully he gets some back in season 6.

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/final_season_of_lost_promises_to

Enjoy the premier!

xhonzi said:

I remembered one more: Richard Alpert.  I suppose there's more to come on this guy, but again- I felt the mystery of the guy was really... mysterious.  Not only did he not age, but he seemed to be omniscient and omnipotent as well!  He knew John Locke would come to the island 30 years before it happened!  He made Juliette's ex get hit by a bus!

Turns out he was acting on information from a time traveling John Locke.  Yeah, it makes sense and it gives us the very cool pocket watch loop... but it's kind of a lame handling of Alpert.  He's just not as cool as he used to be.  Throughout most of season 5, he seemed like he was kind of stupid.

Hopefully he gets some back in season 6.

Ah, but you're forgetting that this Locke ISN'T LOCKE AT ALL!  So, Alpert fell for Jacob's Enemy's plan to get Locke to come to the Island and claim leadership of the Others, then leave and get the O6 to come back, then take over his identity to further lead not only the Losties, but the Others astray to kill Jacob and ruin whatever plans he had.

A lot to take in on the last few seconds of a season finale.

Wow, I didn't realize the premier was tonight. That means I get to watch it online, mostly commercial free tomorrow. And I don't even have to waste money paying for cable.

Lost sounds a bit like another show that jumped the shark with its plot Heroes.  Why neither show had been canceled is beyond my limited understanding of crappy shows.

I guess Lost is better than American Idol.  But that is like saying what cancer would you prefer to get than another,lol.

I mean its like a dark sci fi version of Gilligans Island.  Instead of just Gilligan being retarded everyone is.  And like everyone is tripping on mushrooms and seeing things like sci fi stuff that can't happen on Earth at least the one i know i live on,lol.

Its like Indiana Jones and Aliens fucking nonsense!

Dude, have you ever even watched the show? I admit it isn't for everyone, and it suffers from more than its fair share of pointless filler type episodes, but when it hits the mark, it really hits it hard. Episodes like The Constant are some of the best sci-fi I have seen in years. Sci-fi is something that, IMHO has been pretty much dead for the last decade or so. It is really rare to find anything in that genre worth watching, so to me, Lost is quite a treat. I still say it is the best sci-fi show since X-Files' early seasons (not to say there wasn't some great stuff between the lifespans of those two shows, such as Life on Mars (the real one, not the worthless US remake) and Firefly).

That said, this season will make or break it as a whole. If this season fails to satisfy, then the entire series won't be worth a whole lot. If this season can pull it off, then it will be a series worth recommending to future generations. If not, then it will, unfortunately, end up being just another TV show better off forgotten.

With our current TV market saturated with the most worthless sitcoms (serious, name ONE genuinely good and funny one), reality TV shows, and about a zillion crime dramas all featuring increasingly longer acronyms for names (all of which rehash the same tired formula night after night), and it is always the sci-fi shows that people are the quickest to piss on. Ironically, it is usually sci-fi fans who are so quick to piss on them, while they are more than happy to give NCISJAGNYPD and all the other nonesense on there a pass.

Sci-fi has a long history of not being taken seriously by the general population. While, often times, sci-fi is a great vehicle for touching on some very deep topics in ways a realistic story would have a very hard time doing. Finally we have reached a point where the value is being seen in sci-fi. When Lost took its swift turn toward straight sci-fi in season two, it lost a lot of viewers. But it is still pretty cool that a sci-fi series can be given as much credit and attention as Lost has gotten over the years.

I don't think the comparison to Indiana Jones and the Aliens is very fair. Sure, Indiana Jones always had sci-fi elements to it, but it was its own brand of sci-fi, voodoo curses and mystic artifacts. Introducing aliens too it felt really out of place. And honestly, the aliens would have been just fine, if the rest of the movie would have been worth watching. But as it is, IJATKOTCS sucked through and through.

Never too late to get into a TV show. The things aren't time stamped. Just get your hands on the season one DVDs/Blu-rays and get to watching.

As for the sitcoms you mentioned, I said genuinely good and funny. I like the first few seasons of the office, but it just got old and tired after a while. No real character progression, just more of the same really. Unfortunately, I sat through part of an episode of 30 Rock and I was beyond underwhelmed. Haven't even heard of the other two shows.

Here are my thoughts/questions on the premiere.

http://doubleofive.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/lost-thoughts-lax/

Its alright now, but its not the same magic that season 1 had, when EVERYTHING was a mystery.  My friends and I have examined everything so closely that except for the flashes, nothing really came as a surprise.

I'm still going to finish it out, just to see what happens.  Unlike Heroes, which rebooted every season so that there was no overarcing plot anymore, and multiple contradictory answers to the most basic questions (they got their powers during the eclipse, no the eclipse takes away their powers, no there have been mutants for GENERATIONS).  Lost still has some basic mysteries left over from the Pilot.  I'm sure the writer's explanations have changed, but giving it an end date was the best thing the show could have done.

doubleofive said:

xhonzi said:

I remembered one more: Richard Alpert.  I suppose there's more to come on this guy, but again- I felt the mystery of the guy was really... mysterious.  Not only did he not age, but he seemed to be omniscient and omnipotent as well!  He knew John Locke would come to the island 30 years before it happened!  He made Juliette's ex get hit by a bus!

Turns out he was acting on information from a time traveling John Locke.  Yeah, it makes sense and it gives us the very cool pocket watch loop... but it's kind of a lame handling of Alpert.  He's just not as cool as he used to be.  Throughout most of season 5, he seemed like he was kind of stupid.

Hopefully he gets some back in season 6.

Ah, but you're forgetting that this Locke ISN'T LOCKE AT ALL! 

Ah, but you're forgetting that it WAS John Locke (at all!) who was doing the time traveling!  The MIB pretending to be Locke didn't show up until after Locke's (at all!) time traveling/Alpert leading adventures!

double005 said on his blog:

 

So they decided to let us have our cake and eat it too.  They couldn’t have stopped The Incident or they wouldn’t have gotten onto the Island at all.  So they show us both the Island unchanged and what would have happened to everyone had the plane not crashed.

I predicted this (not here) would be the case based on this conundrum: If they prevented the incident/crash at the end of Season 5, then Season 6 would be a complete reboot making all of Seasons 1-5 worthless.  If they COULDN'T prevent the incident/crash, then most of Season 5 would be worthless.  The only way out would be to carry on both storylines.

Jack’s dad’s body never got on the plane?  What about the empty casket they found in Season 1?  Where did Jacob get Christian’s body to play with?

Several things are different besides the lack of crash.  In the real timeline, Christian's body was on the plane and it did crash on the island.  In the new one, it got lost with Locke's knives, Hurley is the luckiest guy in the world, Desmond made it to Australia in his sail boat, waited around for 2 or 3 years, and is now flying home on Oceanic.  Shanon didn't leave with Boon, etc...

Jacob seemed pretty fine for being dead.  Maybe this happens a lot?

 Well, it's happened to Charlie, Eko, Christian, Locke, Ben's Mom, etc...

Guitar case held an ankh, with a note inside it that says if Sayid dies then “we’re all in a lot of trouble.”  Sayid, really?  What happened to Walt being so important or any of the other people who have supernatural powers or freaking Desmond?  Maybe all of the O6 has to stay alive for some reason?

I agree with your last thought.  I think it was "Jacob's list" (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lists) and the Japanese guy knows that everyone on the list needs to be there "at the end" or else "they are all screwed."  So it's not so much that the paper says Sayid has to be alive, but that all of them do.

Is all this Alt2004 stuff going somewhere?  Is this what we should expect all season instead of flashforwards/sideways, etc?

Just before last year's finale, Darlton said that time travel would be over in season 5 and that everybody would be back in 2007 by the end of S5:finale.  This year, Matthew Fox said: SPOILER "A third of the way through the final season, the two time lines will be "solidified into one" and "will be very linear – no more flashbacks, nothing." END SPOILER  So that was confusing.  He must have been referring to the Lost and AltLost timelines, not the 2007 and 1977 timelines.

Damon dud say that there wouldn't be flashbacks or flashforwards this season, but something they haven't done before... this is obviously it.  But whether it lasts all season or not... *shrug*?

I think the question for me is this: Which version of history will win?  Will we see Alt2003 make the decision to go back to the island?  Or will we see the actions of Lost2007 negate the newly created timeline?  Or something else we can't imagine?

Esau has come to free Jacob’s “slaves”, but kicks the crap out of Richard and carries him off saying he’s disappointed.  In what?

It looked to me like the Man in Black and Richard have history- I'm guessing it begins with the arrival of the Black Rock as seen in last year's finale?  Perhaps MIB gave some supernatural powers to Alpert and then told him to be his inside man in Jacob's camp... but Alpert went native on him and never fulfilled his half of the bargain.

Sayid is back from the dead!  ZombieSayid!

I would say "JesusSayid" is more likely.  Didn't you see the way they pulled him out of the water after his baptism?

MY OWN QUESTIONS:

So the island is underwater in Alt2003??? I guess that makes it less likely that they will be able to return to it (by going forward) without some trouble...

Can they please just give the MIB a name so we don't have to keep using guesses based on Jacob's name?

Can Jacob likewise turn into a smoke monster?  If not, what are his mutant powers?  He obviously has some, but we need to know more about them to draw conclusions about what supernatural events have been driven by Jacob, and which by MIB.

Christian?  Servant of Jacob?  Is his body in Alt2003 on the island- under the sea?

Why didn't they take Juliet into the temple for healing?  How did she know, "It worked?"  Was she simultaneously talking to Saywer in both Alt2003 and Lost2007?

And will my undying belief that Widmore brought DHARMA to the island be vindicated this year?  Or silenced forever?

I had more, but I already forgot...

C3PX said:

Wow, I didn't realize the premier was tonight. That means I get to watch it online, mostly commercial free tomorrow. And I don't even have to waste money paying for cable.

It is on OTA TV as well, right?

xhonzi said:

Jack’s dad’s body never got on the plane?  What about the empty casket they found in Season 1?  Where did Jacob get Christian’s body to play with?

Several things are different besides the lack of crash.  In the real timeline, Christian's body was on the plane and it did crash on the island.  In the new one, it got lost with Locke's knives, Hurley is the luckiest guy in the world, Desmond made it to Australia in his sail boat, waited around for 2 or 3 years, and is now flying home on Oceanic.  Shanon didn't leave with Boon, etc...

Interesting how erasing the Island from existence since 1977 would change THAT much of random peoples' lives.  Desmond I can understand, but why wouldn't Christian's body be on the plane, who had no contact with the Island previously?  Same with Locke's knives.  How did Hurley win the same lottery if he didn't know The Numbers?  Chance?  Fate?

Jacob seemed pretty fine for being dead.  Maybe this happens a lot?

 Well, it's happened to Charlie, Eko, Christian, Locke, Ben's Mom, etc...

I meant maybe Jacob dies a lot.  I wrote that before The Others in The Temple freaked out when they heard he was dead several hours after it happened.

Guitar case held an ankh, with a note inside it that says if Sayid dies then “we’re all in a lot of trouble.”  Sayid, really?  What happened to Walt being so important or any of the other people who have supernatural powers or freaking Desmond?  Maybe all of the O6 has to stay alive for some reason?

I agree with your last thought.  I think it was "Jacob's list" (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lists) and the Japanese guy knows that everyone on the list needs to be there "at the end" or else "they are all screwed."  So it's not so much that the paper says Sayid has to be alive, but that all of them do.

Interesting point.  But why are so many people on this list (besides the fact that they're main characters)?  And how does Sayid dying not freak them out if "we're all in trouble"?

Sayid is back from the dead!  ZombieSayid!

I would say "JesusSayid" is more likely.  Didn't you see the way they pulled him out of the water after his baptism?

ZombieSayid comes from my past recaps, where I called what we thought was resurrected Locke ZombieLocke.  He will henceforth be known as JesusSayid!

MY OWN QUESTIONS:

So the island is underwater in Alt2003??? I guess that makes it less likely that they will be able to return to it (by going forward) without some trouble...

I imagined if they did do the "they never crashed" line, that they would have remembered everything about the Island and want to go back.  However, the characters have been rebooted, so they won't know anything about the Island and if they heard anything about it it would be an Island that disappeared after nuclear testing.

Can they please just give the MIB a name so we don't have to keep using guesses based on Jacob's name?

They came close a few times last night, but it was mostly "YOU" and "HIM".  I called him AntiJacob in my recap of the finale, but a friend of mine pointed out the Jacob/Esau connection which I really liked.

Can Jacob likewise turn into a smoke monster?  If not, what are his mutant powers?  He obviously has some, but we need to know more about them to draw conclusions about what supernatural events have been driven by Jacob, and which by MIB.

Jacob also turning into a SM would explain why The Others were protected by it at times.  But two SMs would be a little much.  It made more sense when we thought it was just a security system.

Christian?  Servant of Jacob?  Is his body in Alt2003 on the island- under the sea?

Spongebob Squarepants?  But seriously, how would it have gotten there if it didn't fall out of the plane while Jack was flying over it?

Why didn't they take Juliet into the temple for healing?  How did she know, "It worked?"  Was she simultaneously talking to Saywer in both Alt2003 and Lost2007?

Juliet was already dead, while Sayid was alive (barely).  Can't baptize dead people! ;-)

Her talking to Alt2004 Sawyer and Lost2007 Sawyer makes sense.  Somehow being in both timelines, she would have known it worked.

And will my undying belief that Widmore brought DHARMA to the island be vindicated this year?  Or silenced forever?

Why would you think he didn't?  Widmore left the Island, found it, brought Dharma, then lost it again after the Purge and turning the wheel, then found it again (but he couldn't come back himself), then lost it again after the wheel was turned again, then it blew up in an alternate timeline where NO ONE can have it. ;-)

Do you have facebook, a lot of this discussion would be easier with all of my other friends:

www.facebook.com/drew.stewart

We have a discussion group at work.  I've been harping the DHARMA/Widmore conncetion for years.  Season 5 seemed to be the proof they all needed to finally tell me I was wrong.  I relented for a week, but then I went back to it.  How else would DHARMA have found the island?

Here's the rest of my theory: The Island has some kind of purpose to prevent the end of the world or something.  The others, lead by Jacob, are there to protect the island so that it can play its part.  However, Widmore began to think that the island wouldn't play this part on its own, so he co-founded or brought DHARMA to the island so that they could figure out how to control the island to MAKE it play its part.  MIB and anyone associated with him would want to prevent it... but the others/DHARMA (Ben/Widmore) are on the same side, they just can't agree on how to go about it.

I am on facebook from time to time, but I can't get to it from work.  *blush*  So, sorry.

Also, it's 2003, right?  The crash was in Sep 2003.  It was Dec 2003 when Keamey and the freighter showed up, and Jan 2004 when the Oceanic Six were resuced?  And then the non6 went back 30 years to 1974 and then lived there for three years until 1977.  The six also lived 3 years off island before returning in 2007?

Juliet was already dead, while Sayid was alive (barely).  Can't baptize dead people! ;-)

Paul would disagree with you: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/1_Corinthians#15:29

:)

Interesting how erasing the Island from existence since 1977 would change THAT much of random peoples' lives.  Desmond I can understand, but why wouldn't Christian's body be on the plane, who had no contact with the Island previously?  Same with Locke's knives.  How did Hurley win the same lottery if he didn't know The Numbers?  Chance?  Fate? 

If it's "fate" or "Jacob" that brings them to the island (it can't just be cause and effect... there's too much interleaving of their lives for that) then fate will course correct and bring them to the island in some other way. 

Soo... I think I asked this before but I'm going to clarify it this way... is Lost2007 the future of Alt2003?  Could it be that Alt2003 ends up with them coming back to the island under different circumstances?  Probably not- especially given the underwater state of the island in Alt2003.  But then what is Lost2007?   It's not the future of Jack&CoInhabited1977, is it ?  I thought Alt2003 was the future of that 1977, and I've already convinced myself that it's not the future of Alt2003.  Well, it has to be the future of that 1977 to some degree because of the picture that Christian showed Sun.  But would they really still build the Swan Station if the effect of the bomb was as destructive as intended?  Is the whole that Juliet was in the result of the 1977 incident, or Desmond's 2003 implosion of the hatch?

My guess is that everything up to Faraday deciding that time actually can be changed is the history of both Lost2007 and Alt2003.  Everything after that decision is only the history of Alt2003, and the explosion at the Swan kicked the losties back to their original, unmodied 2007 and at the same time created the Alt2003 universe.

xhonzi said:

We have a discussion group at work.  I've been harping the DHARMA/Widmore conncetion for years.  Season 5 seemed to be the proof they all needed to finally tell me I was wrong.  I relented for a week, but then I went back to it.  How else would DHARMA have found the island?

Here's the rest of my theory: The Island has some kind of purpose to prevent the end of the world or something.  The others, lead by Jacob, are there to protect the island so that it can play its part.  However, Widmore began to think that the island wouldn't play this part on its own, so he co-founded or brought DHARMA to the island so that they could figure out how to control the island to MAKE it play its part.  MIB and anyone associated with him would want to prevent it... but the others/DHARMA (Ben/Widmore) are on the same side, they just can't agree on how to go about it.

I agree that everyone is actually on the same side, except Ben seems to be leaning towards the MIB/Esau side now that he betrayed Jacob.

I am on facebook from time to time, but I can't get to it from work.  *blush*  So, sorry.

That's fine.  You may want to read the comments on my status where I link to the blog, as I've got like 35 comments with interesting theories.

Also, it's 2003, right?  The crash was in Sep 2003.  It was Dec 2003 when Keamey and the freighter showed up, and Jan 2004 when the Oceanic Six were resuced?  And then the non6 went back 30 years to 1974 and then lived there for three years until 1977.  The six also lived 3 years off island before returning in 2007?

Crash was September 2004, O6 rescued in December 2004, lived for 3 years until 2007 when they come back except for those thrown back to 1974, where they live for 3 more years until 1977 where they are now thrown back to 2007 (three years older than the people they left in 2007!)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

Juliet was already dead, while Sayid was alive (barely).  Can't baptize dead people! ;-)

Paul would disagree with you: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/1_Corinthians#15:29

:)

Baptism for the dead (ie, if Jesus died and was never resurrected and people being baptized in his name) is different from baptism of the dead.  Can't say I didn't learn anything from Bible College, eh?

Interesting how erasing the Island from existence since 1977 would change THAT much of random peoples' lives.  Desmond I can understand, but why wouldn't Christian's body be on the plane, who had no contact with the Island previously?  Same with Locke's knives.  How did Hurley win the same lottery if he didn't know The Numbers?  Chance?  Fate? 

If it's "fate" or "Jacob" that brings them to the island (it can't just be cause and effect... there's too much interleaving of their lives for that) then fate will course correct and bring them to the island in some other way. 

Soo... I think I asked this before but I'm going to clarify it this way... is Lost2007 the future of Alt2003?  Could it be that Alt2003 ends up with them coming back to the island under different circumstances?  Probably not- especially given the underwater state of the island in Alt2003.  But then what is Lost2007?   It's not the future of Jack&CoInhabited1977, is it ?  I thought Alt2003 was the future of that 1977, and I've already convinced myself that it's not the future of Alt2003.  Well, it has to be the future of that 1977 to some degree because of the picture that Christian showed Sun.  But would they really still build the Swan Station if the effect of the bomb was as destructive as intended?  Is the whole that Juliet was in the result of the 1977 incident, or Desmond's 2003 implosion of the hatch?

My guess is that everything up to Faraday deciding that time actually can be changed is the history of both Lost2007 and Alt2003.  Everything after that decision is only the history of Alt2003, and the explosion at the Swan kicked the losties back to their original, unmodied 2007 and at the same time created the Alt2003 universe.

Lost2007 would be unmodified, as Sun and Lepidus have never traveled in time after leaving and coming back.  The explosion must have reset the time skippers back to Lost2007 (as they inhabit the same Island that Lepidus made a landing on) while at the same time creating Alt2004.

It bends your mind sometimes, Frink.

doubleofive said:

I agree that everyone is actually on the same side, except Ben seems to be leaning towards the MIB/Esau side now that he betrayed Jacob.

True.

 

Also, it's 2003, right?  The crash was in Sep 2003.  It was Dec 2003 when Keamey and the freighter showed up, and Jan 2004 when the Oceanic Six were resuced?  And then the non6 went back 30 years to 1974 and then lived there for three years until 1977.  The six also lived 3 years off island before returning in 2007?

Crash was September 2004, O6 rescued in December 2004, lived for 3 years until 2007 when they come back except for those thrown back to 1974, where they live for 3 more years until 1977 where they are now thrown back to 2007 (three years older than the people they left in 2007!)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

You are correct.  So was it three full years for both the 6 and the non6?  Is it still December in 2007?  Can it be 2008 yet?

Juliet was already dead, while Sayid was alive (barely).  Can't baptize dead people! ;-)

Paul would disagree with you: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/1_Corinthians#15:29

:)

Baptism for the dead (ie, if Jesus died and was never resurrected and people being baptized in his name) is different from baptism of the dead.  Can't say I didn't learn anything from Bible College, eh?

I was mostly teasing.  I know of nobody that actually baptizes the actual dead body.  But my main point (several posts ago) was that the script decided that Juliet would die and Sayid would live.  At the very beginning of the episode, Sayid appears to be much worse off than Juliet, yet they can't get her to the pool fast enough...

Lost2007 would be unmodified, as Sun and Lepidus have never traveled in time after leaving and coming back.  The explosion must have reset the time skippers back to Lost2007 (as they inhabit the same Island that Lepidus made a landing on) while at the same time creating Alt2004.

 It's obviously modified to the point that Sun saw a picture of Jin from 1974.  And what of the Swan?  Is the Swan in Lost2007 simply the result of Desmond's actions?  Or of the incident too?

xhonzi said:

 

Crash was September 2004, O6 rescued in December 2004, lived for 3 years until 2007 when they come back except for those thrown back to 1974, where they live for 3 more years until 1977 where they are now thrown back to 2007 (three years older than the people they left in 2007!)

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

You are correct.  So was it three full years for both the 6 and the non6?  Is it still December in 2007?  Can it be 2008 yet?

Oh, i forgot who was traveling when.  Jack was thrown into 1977 after everyone else had been living there for 3 years, making up for the time Jack had been living in the present.  It could be 2008 "now" though.

Baptism for the dead (ie, if Jesus died and was never resurrected and people being baptized in his name) is different from baptism of the dead.  Can't say I didn't learn anything from Bible College, eh?

I was mostly teasing.  I know of nobody that actually baptizes the actual dead body.  But my main point (several posts ago) was that the script decided that Juliet would die and Sayid would live.  At the very beginning of the episode, Sayid appears to be much worse off than Juliet, yet they can't get her to the pool fast enough...

Well, Juliet has her own show on the same network, so she HAD to die! ;-)

Lost2007 would be unmodified, as Sun and Lepidus have never traveled in time after leaving and coming back.  The explosion must have reset the time skippers back to Lost2007 (as they inhabit the same Island that Lepidus made a landing on) while at the same time creating Alt2004.

 It's obviously modified to the point that Sun saw a picture of Jin from 1974.  And what of the Swan?  Is the Swan in Lost2007 simply the result of Desmond's actions?  Or of the incident too?

I'm of the opinion that Jin was always in 1974 in the normal timeline, we just didn't know it.