Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 226

The way i see it is that there are 4 types of followers here. Ranging from the totally open minded and love everything thats just Star Wars, to the extreme hardcore un-changed OT fan that doesn't want the films changed in anyway but of the highest quality (I understand Ady got some friction when doing ANH:R from this group aswell in the early days). I think most of us loath the SE's changes, but will embrace "some" changes for the better (thats always going to be walking a bit of mine field, as GL may have found out after the release of the SE's and the birth of tu net). That group gets split almost 3 ways with 3 filums. ...Well, 2 ways mostly, but most want to look on it as equally as 3 ways /:-P

I love Jedi regardless as i read the book before seeing the filum, and its the only time i haven't ever been dissapointed by doing so (erm, i guess i loved everything Star Wars back then).

Conclusion being then, erm, yeah, why are you here? (Not directed at any1, just a concensus).

Darth Solo said:

The way i see it is that there are 4 types of followers here. Ranging from the totally open minded and love everything thats just Star Wars, to the extreme hardcore un-changed OT fan that doesn't want the films changed in anyway but of the highest quality (I understand Ady got some friction when doing ANH:R from this group aswell in the early days). I think most of us loath the SE's changes, but will embrace "some" changes for the better (thats always going to be walking a bit of mine field, as GL may have found out after the release of the SE's and the birth of tu net). That group gets split almost 3 ways with 3 filums. ...Well, 2 ways mostly, but most want to look on it as equally as 3 ways /:-P

I love Jedi regardless as i read the book before seeing the filum, and its the only time i haven't ever been dissapointed by doing so (erm, i guess i loved everything Star Wars back then).

Conclusion being then, erm, yeah, why are you here? (Not directed at any1, just a concensus).

 Just curious, why do you spell it "filum"? o.O

To humour myself as i dont like speaking (edit:typing) too much serious in a post.

Nargh, i guess its because im just shallow.

Darth Solo said:

The way i see it is that there are 4 types of followers here. Ranging from the totally open minded and love everything thats just Star Wars, to the extreme hardcore un-changed OT fan that doesn't want the films changed in anyway but of the highest . I think most of us loath the SE's changes, but will embrace "some" changes for the better (thats always going to be walking a bit of mine field, as GL may have found out after the release of the SE's and the birth of tu net). That group gets split almost 3 ways with 3 filums. ...Well, 2 ways mostly, but most want to look on it as equally as 3 ways /:-P

 I for one have no problems with the SE, any of the myriad changes made to it. Frankly, its a bold step forward into what exactly a film-director's job is. Go Special Editions!

BUT... I do now and always will prefer the OUT. Any beef I have with the SEs is based soley on the lack of availability of the OUT. If they were both out and the OUT was restored, I'd probably own the LFL version of both happily.

TheBoost said:

Any beef I have with the SEs is based soley on the lack of availability of the OUT. If they were both out and the OUT was restored, I'd probably own the LFL version of both happily.

Thank you!  This is my exact attitude toward the SE/OT debate.  I would like to think that many here agree with us, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case.

So what would a space faring palace look like (the throne room would have to look mostly like the exterior of the existing tower any way).

Are we talking mini Jedi Temple with engines underneath or something a bit more gothic (Nostromo refinery styley)?

Actually the glass bottom idea was Angel's my idea was that the Emperor's Palace attaches itself via a pylon like an Air ship and the elevator goes through the pylon into a parade bay (the main hanger in the current version of the film).

Like the Hindenburg docking with the Empire State Building (done rather well in Sky Captain And The World Of Tomorrow):

So instead of stepping off a shuttle he has just popped down a lift to inspect the station and the troops.

When Luke lands he goes up in the lift, through the pylon and into the Throne Room (which could be on the bottom of his Palace ship as much as the top).

It does give anyone wanting to take this approach a free hand to design a new piece of the Star Wars universe.

I quite like the idea of a pyramid but it could be upside down with the throne room on the bottom.

There was an unused Ron Cobb design for the Nostromo in Alien like that (please ignore the bottom picture):

This looks nice too :

If you guys want to move the throne room, why not move it to Coruscant?  I'd rather see that then a floating space needle.

Ghost said:

If you guys want to move the throne room, why not move it to Coruscant?  I'd rather see that then a floating space needle.

 i second that. either it stays at the death star II or we have it in imperial city on coruscant. when the emperor is pointing the battle out to luke, have a hologram playing similiar to AOTC in the battle of gionoses scene.

Now obviously the shuttle scene would need to be taken out of the beginning, which I think Ady was taking most of the beginning out anyway.

The conversation between Vader and Palps could easily be done through hologram. 

Now the most imporant (and the most climatic) duel in the saga would immediatly be more epic just by having be on Coruscant.  This could just be me. 

This would also cut alot of redundancy between DS and DS II. 

It would eliminate the question, "how did Luke get off the DS so fast"?

The windows could be easily filled in with Coruscant cityscapes.

It would overall give the whole film a fresh feel.

The point being that the Emperor has personally come to inspect the Death Star construction but rather than arriving in a shuttle like anyone else would he has moved his entire palace there.

With the destruction of the Death Star the entire palace staff including many of his court and advisers would die too (the price of the Emperor's hubris).

In a way it reflects what goes on in the first act with Jabba putting his court onto the sail barge, Palpatine is Jabba on a more epic scale. Like most dictators he is at heart a glorified gangster.

In terms of character it adds to Palpatine's distance between himself and the people he rules (like a cross between Hitler's Eagle's Nest and his bunker). He need never leave his palace as his palace can go wherever he rarely feels the need to visit a bit like Verne's Robur the Conqueror and Captain Nemo.

The idea of the Imperial palace docking with the Death Star was a proposed idea for Jedi which wasn't realised (possibly to save money). Like so much of the Star Wars universe it was pinched off Dune and the mini-series based on that book had a good stab at trying to get it to work with the view out of the windows shifting from crystal spires, to space, to desert.

Adding it to a special edition of the film could make story sense if done correctly and could make the film visually more different from ANH (something it resembles too much already).

It was the same rationale behind suggesting re-introducing the two Death Stars idea from earlier draughts of the film.

This palace could dock with more than one Death Star so if the two Death Star idea were used it could dock with the Endor Death Star at one point of the film and the secret Death Star before Luke comes on board (thus adding to the audience surprise in that scenario).

If you moved the throne room scenes to Coruscant Palpatine and Vader are in no immediate threat.

The Rebels and the audience have no bait to the trap to follow.

The tension is tied only to what is happening in the room and not to all the other conflicts which interconnect in the final act.

If you really need a scene on Coruscant a sequence with the Palace rising into the sky and shooting hyperspace might be interesting to look at (I'm not sure if it is necessary though).

If you moved the throne room scenes to Coruscant Palpatine and Vader are in no immediate threat.

When I watch the movie, that's not what I'm thinking about.  Also, isn't that make sense there in no threat.  Palps should be smart enough to learn from the destruction of the first DS explosion.  Palps was smart enough to play both sides of the coin in the PT.

This film isn't about the DS explosion at the end of the film.  Vader and Palps are already dead, so what's your point here?  I'm probably misunderstanding you.

Lastly, I think the palace in space crap is nonsense.  Palps should be on Coruscant, like most people assume he is.  Not floating around in space, talk about putting yourself in danger.

Ghost said:

If you moved the throne room scenes to Coruscant Palpatine and Vader are in no immediate threat.

 

When I watch the movie, that's not what I'm thinking about.  Also, isn't that make sense there in no threat.  Palps should be smart enough to learn from the destruction of the first DS explosion.  Palps was smart enough to play both sides of the coin in the PT.

This film isn't about the DS explosion at the end of the film.  Vader and Palps are already dead, so what's your point here?  I'm probably misunderstanding you.

Lastly, I think the palace in space crap is nonsense.  Palps should be on Coruscant, like most people assume he is.  Not floating around in space, talk about putting yourself in danger.

 

That may not be the how it finally plays out but clearly Luke and the the Rebels gamble everything on the hope it would be, otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place.

It's one of the two reasons for their attack on the Death Star.

Sure they would probably want to destroy it anyway but the reason why they are so keen to do it there and then is because the Emperor is there (throwing the majority of the Imperial court only sweetens the pot more and make the final victory more believable).

Luke makes a dig at the Emperor's hubris when he meets him (which he counters with a dig at his faith in his friends).

He is so confident that he cannot lose that makes sense for him to actually be there in person to bait his trap, that is his weakness.

Moving the final duel to Coruscant makes no sense at all.

How the hell is Luke going to get out of there on his own?

He is one Jedi against the entire Imperial capital planet and the assumption will be he has just killed their leader and his favorite enforcer.

Flash Gordon might get cheers and medals the moment he kills an Emperor (well at least in the Dino version) but Star Wars despite it's shared roots isn't that kind of story.

Getting off a doomed battle station on the other robotic hand is more plausible.

It's a interesting idea to place Vader/Luke/Palps on Coruscant for the final battle and would make for a much more interesting backdrop......but I can't see it working.

I know changes to the core story are in order but this one change I can't see fitting. Too many other things would need to be reworked or edited out for it to function. Plus - as it has been mentioned - the Emperor being on the DS2 is the rebels main reason for giving it their all.

Without the Emperor on the DS2 all we have is a rehash of AnH (rebels blowing up another space station) which is something we are trying to get away from.

Even with that said I'd still like to see a mock up of what it might look like.

Even with that said I'd still like to see a mock up of what it might look like.

Me to.  I also have some questions about the idea, but I think the pros weigh out the cons.  I would like to see the saga end on a planet like Coruscant.  It would be cool seeing it rain and lightning or something like in ROTS. These explanations for it staying on the DS aren't very strong at all IMO. 

the Emperor being on the DS2 is the rebels main reason for giving it their all.

So thats an excuse?  The rebels are going all out anyway.  In ANH, the rebels gave it there all, Palps wasn't present. ( I know there lifes were on the line...but they would still give there all if they werent.)

Let's not also forget that the Rebel leader woman even says "...and the Emperor himself will be there."

I hope your not serious with this explanation. 

Too many other things would need to be reworked or edited out for it to function.

Too many things would need to be re-worked?  You guys wan't to put the Emperor on a flying saucer.  Not alot would need to be changed that come to the top of my head.   

Also keep in mind that the whole thing was a trap set up by Palpatine and he wanted a front row seat... this is not something he wants to Tivo and watch on his crappy 20" hologram projector.

Mabey he doesn't want a front row seat?  When does he say this in the movie?  I don't see this as a excuse to keep Palps on DS II.

Look, I know things will need to be re-done, but if we need these kind of changes, I think seeing Coruscant would be better.  It feels more threatning that Luke has to go up against the  Emperor ( in the Imperial Capital), rather than Palps sort of going to him.

It's an interesting idea, lets AT LEAST see some mockups of this.

In ANH the Rebels had to fight, they didn't have enough time to evacuate before the Death Star blew them to bits.

In ROTJ they are told there is some time before the new Death Star is fully operational so in theory they could have waited a little longer to gather a larger fleet and plan a tighter scheme of attack but the added bonus of killing the Emperor was too good an opportunity to waste.

The Emperor being there is the reason they are doing this there and then.

Moving him to Coruscant makes no sense at all, the only thing it does is make the view out of the window look more like those in the PT and we have three films of that sort of thing to sort out already.

Nobody has ever suggested putting Palpatine on a flying saucer.

The suggestion was for him to arrive on a mobile palace which is docked with the Death Star.

It's physically linked to the place as in earlier draughts of the script for Jedi.

Ghost if you don't like a suggested idea I can live with that, not everyone will agree with everyone else and there are some ideas that people have suggested that I don't dig either but please address the actual idea and don't distort it to dismiss it.

"Ghost if you don't like a suggested idea I can live with that, not everyone will agree with everyone else and there are some ideas that people have suggested that I don't dig either but please address the actual idea and don't distort it to dismiss it."

I agree....Ghost you are coming off a little bit heated as well, lol.

Chill man - it's all just friendly/fun SW discussion.

I agree....Ghost you are coming off a little bit heated as well, lol.

Sorry guys if you thought I was a bit heated, I wasn't trying to be. 

Now stop getting off topic guys :)  Lets get back to some intense SW discussion.