C3PX said:
Vaderisnothayden said:
They're offended because they choose to be offended. They could just as easily choose to be more open-minded and not get offended. If somebody's offended by swearing that's their problem. It's not a reason why other people should have to censor their speech.
Or you could simply choose not to be offensive and save them the trouble. Lets for a second assume all who are offended by cursing are worthless close minded individuals who simply make life miserable for the rest of us; what about young children? If you had (and perhaps you do have) kids, would there be (or are there) any words you would feel would be inappropriate to use in front of them?
Well, that's dumb. I don't go making stupid assumptions about people's intelligence or education when I hear them swearing. I know that swearing has nothing to do with education or intelligence...
Which sounds more educated?
(a) "The other fuckin' day, I went to the fuckin' grocery store and they fuckin' had their fuckin' milk on sale for a two fuckin' forty-five a gallon! I bought three fuckin' cartons... shit that was a good deal."
(b) "The other day, I went to the grocery store and they had their milk on sale for two forty-five gallon! I bought three cartons... that was a good deal."
Swearing does not lessen communication and it is no evidence of a lack of ability to communicate. It's rather dumb to think it is. I've never thought somebody sounded stupid just because they cursed. But when I hear people criticising swearing I do tend to think "What a narrow-minded stick-in-the-mud".
In my above question, which speaker is communicating more clearly? Is it (a) or (b)?
"As for not cursing in front of women, you are right, there is really no reason they couldn't handle it any less than anyone else, it is just an old fashion courtesy and a sign of respect."
Old fashioned sexism, really. Ultimately therefore a sign of DISrespect.
I also hold doors open for women. Most of the time they are appreciative of it, but every now and then one "chooses" to be offended by it. So yeah, I probably would accurately fit into the modern definition of the word "sexist".
Swearing is not about being cool or badass or nonconformist. It's about putting vigour and expression into your speech in a way that is not duplicated by other methods. I don't see why swearing being commonplace should make it lame. People saying "hello" is commonplace too, but that doesn't make it especially lame.
Thank you for brining up the point of "vigor" and "expression" this is quite true. You could use swearing to add weight to what you are saying. For example, someone saying, "Are you fucking kidding me!" I could assume to be more angry than someone just simply saying, "Are you kidding me!" But with over use, the potency of these words is greatly diminished. "Hello" is a very different sort of a word, it is a greeting and is meant to be used on a very frequent basis.
With good reason. When you swear you just express yourself, but when you express disapproval of swearing you condemn the actions of others.
I stated quite simply that I was not condemning anyone. If I were to make the argument that "Manual transmission cars are better than automatics", would you think I was condemning all who drive automatics?
"Today, maybe not swearing would be far more nonconformist than intentionally mistaking the f word as a necessary form of verbal punctuation. "
Being anti-swearing is being narrow-minded and overly conservative.
Fair enough. If that is how you feel about it, no point in trying to convince you otherwise.
"It is no longer the taboo that it used to be."
Yes it is. Here we can swear, but on many internet forums swearing isn't allowed at all. Off the net, society still applies plenty of disapproval in many countries. Very narrow-minded attempts to censor swearing are all over the place.
If you need proof it is no longer as taboo as it used to be, let's take a look at its use in movies and other media today in comparison with its use in movies and media back in the 1930's. Can we not concede that there is a pretty big difference? We've come along ways from "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" being considered controversial.
"Or you could simply choose not to be offensive and save them the trouble."
Well seeing as swearing isn't offensive, any trouble is of their own making. There's no reason why I should censor my speech to satisfy the prejudices of others.
"what about young children? If you had (and perhaps you do have) kids, would there be (or are there) any words you would feel would be inappropriate to use in front of them?"
Nope. Swearing does children no harm whatsoever. People should let children swear and let children hear swearing.
"Which sounds more educated? (a) "The other fuckin' day, I went to the fuckin' grocery store and they fuckin' had their fuckin' milk on sale for a two fuckin' forty-five a gallon! I bought three fuckin' cartons... shit that was a good deal." (b) "The other day, I went to the grocery store and they had their milk on sale for two forty-five gallon! I bought three cartons... that was a good deal.""
Neither. The isn't an education difference. Your whole education difference thing is just class prejudice. You associate swearing with working class and you assume working class people have less education. It's a common attitude. Attitudes against swearing have a lot to do with class prejudice. And don't come out with the excuse that you're working class, because working class people are certainly not incapable of being prejudiced against working class.
"In my above question, which speaker is communicating more clearly? Is it (a) or (b)?"
They're both communicating perfectly clearly.
"I also hold doors open for women. Most of the time they are appreciative of it, but every now and then one "chooses" to be offended by it. So yeah, I probably would accurately fit into the modern definition of the word "sexist"."
And your attitudes are more harmful than you realize, because they imply certain attitudes about the capabilities and position of women. As for those women who don't mind you holding open doors for them, some of them may not realize you only hold open doors for women and may think you're just a polite guy who holds open doors for people in general. If they realized you were just doing it on account of their gender they might be less pleased. You imply that women being offended by this stuff is the same as people being offended by swearing, but there is the simple difference that women are right to be offended, while the anti-swearing crowd are not.
"But with over use, the potency of these words is greatly diminished."
I don't find their potency to be diminished.
"I stated quite simply that I was not condemning anyone. If I were to make the argument that "Manual transmission cars are better than automatics", would you think I was condemning all who drive automatics?"
Your car statement is rather more neutral. There's no issue of morality involved so there's no moral disapproval implied. When you state an attitude against swearing you are criticising those who swear.
"If you need proof it is no longer as taboo as it used to be, let's take a look at its use in movies and other media today in comparison with its use in movies and media back in the 1930's. Can we not concede that there is a pretty big difference? We've come along ways from "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" being considered controversial."
It may not be as taboo as it used to be, but it's still plenty taboo.