logo Sign In

The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 145

Author
Time

Bingowings said:

One possibility that just popped into my mind is what if Anakin had some sort of split personality (that he was being both Vader and Anakin at the same time).

We could see some of the crimes of Vader being committed by a shadowy hooded character (some of these could even be acts done by Grievous in the original cut).

All the while Anakin is getting nightmares about Padme being killed and being lured along by Palpatine while these vile acts are being done by this mysterious stranger (possibly out of sequence with the events as we saw them in the cinema).

The murder of Younglings could happen at any time (some mysterious agent sneaking into the temple).

The idea being that the death of his mother drove him insane and he only remembers these deeds when it's too late to go back.

Possibly bonkers but just thought I'd share it.

Now that is the best idea I have ever heard. It would also explain why his acting is soo unstable. He should really seem crazy. He already does!!!

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

Author
Time
 (Edited)

theslime, I usualy agree with your Hitchcock reference (often say it myself in fact!). The audience knowing who Vader is and not Luke is obviously the option Lucas choose. It's not a totaly bad thing, indeed, it brings new "point of view", and possibly more suspens. And it is also true that by 2009 (soon 2010) almost everybody who like movies in general knows the line "No, I am your father" even if they did not watch Empire!

The fact is that in this particular case (the revisited Adywan versions) I personaly feel that everything needs to be done to preserve the original trilogy as much as possible. If surprise was a key element in Empire, I'd prefer it to stay an element of surprise.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Those are some awesome ideas, the kind of ideas that could put that new feel to an already dark film.  But, these will be tough, and it would take alot of time. 

Bingo's idea would explain everything and it would give you a sick feel to your stomach watching the films 1-6.

But wouldn't Bens line in ANH "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned evil" give it away? Or at least the idea of it.

 

Now that is the best idea I have ever heard. It would also explain why his acting is soo unstable. He should really seem crazy. He already does!!!

 

If GL directed the movie with Bingo's idea in mind, Hayden would of won an Oscar.  :)

Author
Time

Ghost said:

But wouldn't Bens line in ANH "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned evil" give it away? Or at least the idea of it.

Damn, you have a strong point here... I feel ashamed not having thought about it.

Author
Time

IIRC Magnoliafan claimed he would be able to make the reveal work by subtly editing the Ben/Luke conversation. I'm not sure he ever revealed what the intended wording was.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

What if Darth Vader is a borrowed name from another sith?

Like once a sith is vanquished, the victor assumes that identity? It consumes him figuratively and literally(as his moniker even changes)

 

He ceases to be Anakin Skywalker and becomes Darth Vader.

So the 1-6 audience would still think Anakin died because "Darth Vader" was still around.

But then once ESB hits, it would be "what? but he's not Luke's father because he died!". "Yeah but maybe Anakin really did survive, kill Vader, and assume his role?"

I don't know. Throwing stuff at the wall.

 

 

Author
Time

Interesting shaner, but that would be toying with the plot too much an couldn't be pulled off from the existing footage we have to work with.  You would need to explain that throughout the movies and it just wouldn't be possible.  The goal isn't to change how Anakin came DV, but tell it in a different way to make the movie better.  Your idea is like another movie.

 

 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

When Obi-Wan is saying goodbye to Anakin for the last time it would be a good place to insert a line saying something like "Of all my students you were the best" (only better) which would imply that there had been others since.

As for Hayden's acting making more sense if he has a split personality, sadly that only remotely makes sense if it happened before Episode II.

The smirks he gives Padme and the tantrums seem to point to an already unhinged actor...erm...character though some of the vacant expressions could be called on.

Re-dubbing his lines still seems like the surest way for me to get the most out of any reworking of his character, even this one.

It would be interesting to have cut away from Shmi's death and later extend the massacre of the Tuskens by a hooded or masked character and not have Anakin admit to it.

That way both things happened but the massacre is the first atrocity of Anakin's shadow self Darth Vader.

If you cut the Sith naming ceremony and have Mace dispatched by some equally shadowy figure it could also obscure the truth.

Grievous is known to take a particular interest in killing Jedi but what if some of that is actual Vader's actions being attributed to Grievous?

It would tie in with what Lucas said back in 1977:

George Lucas said

“When the Jedi tried to restore order, Darth Vader was still one of the Jedi. What he would do is catch the Jedi off-guard and, using his knowledge of the Force, he would kill the Jedi without them realizing what was happening. They trusted him and they didn't realize he was the murderer who was decimating their ranks. At the height of the Jedi, there were several hundred thousand. At the time of the Rebellion, most of them were killed. The Emperor had some strong forces rally behind him, as well, in terms of the army and the Imperial forces that he'd been building up secretly. The Jedi were so outnumbered that they fled and were tracked down. They tried to regroup, but they were eventually massacred by one of the special elite forces led by Darth Vader. Eventually, only a few, including Ben and Luke's father, were left. Luke's father is named Annikin.”

For a time the good Anakin and the evil Darth Vader exist in the same body as a split personality but eventually Vader overwhelms the good persona, which is a handy way of getting around how he can murder children in one scene and be fearful for the life of his own child and his wife in another.

Then the problem boils down to the duel with Ben.

It's an epic duel (though it could do with some trimming) but would anyone be brave enough to dump most of it for the sake of keeping the surprise in ESB?

I did suggest obscuring Anakin's face behind a mask but that would be basically a reshoot.

You'd have to mask off all of Hayden's moves and replace him with a shadowy figure and remove all trace of Anakin from Vader's mechanical re-birth.

Clearly if someone were to attempt this angle it would need a lot of thought and a lot of discussion and a lot of hard work.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

theslime said:

IIRC Magnoliafan claimed he would be able to make the reveal work by subtly editing the Ben/Luke conversation. I'm not sure he ever revealed what the intended wording was.

I have done that in my Grindhouse edit of A New Hope (release probably in January), but for it to work in the revisited saga Adywan would need to make this change in ANH revisited, but as I say I would not like to change the original that much in the "revisted univers". So, yes,  it's tricky to make the father reveal to work in EP5 without editing ANH.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

shanerjedi said:

What if Darth Vader is a borrowed name from another sith?

Like once a sith is vanquished, the victor assumes that identity? It consumes him figuratively and literally(as his moniker even changes)

 

He ceases to be Anakin Skywalker and becomes Darth Vader.

So the 1-6 audience would still think Anakin died because "Darth Vader" was still around.

But then once ESB hits, it would be "what? but he's not Luke's father because he died!". "Yeah but maybe Anakin really did survive, kill Vader, and assume his role?"

I don't know. Throwing stuff at the wall.

 

 

I've had the same idea - so i support this sort of thinking.

Author
Time

A once great sith...

Leave evidence of this all around. It would be really great if Palpatine hinted at Darth Vader being his master at one time!!

Vader could mean supreme as in a supreme sith.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

Author
Time

I did suggest earlier that Darth Vader was a bit like Dread Pirate Roberts in The Princess Bride.

A title that was passed down from one masked warlord to another to create the impression of an invincible leader.

Seeing as Vader wears a mask in the OT, Maul has tattoos in TPM and Grievous is a mostly robotic cyborg in ROTS you could in a rebub call them all Darth Vader to cover Anakin's real identity up until ESB but it all falls down to the duel with Obi-Wan again.

It's THE major stumbling block to preserving the mystery (far more than the "former pupil of mine" line in ANH)

Author
Time

Bingowings said:

I did suggest earlier that Darth Vader was a bit like Dread Pirate Roberts in The Princess Bride.

A title that was passed down from one masked warlord to another to create the impression of an invincible leader.

Seeing as Vader wears a mask in the OT, Maul has tattoos in TPM and Grievous is a mostly robotic cyborg in ROTS you could in a rebub call them all Darth Vader to cover Anakin's real identity up until ESB but it all falls down to the duel with Obi-Wan again.

It's THE major stumbling block to preserving the mystery (far more than the "former pupil of mine" line in ANH)

I wonder what Ady has got up his sleeve. He isn't giving any hints!!!

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

Author
Time

Hey this is off topic (posted in another thread as well.) but those looking for more of the CGI Yoda proof in EP1 look no further than here starting at 2:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF8yjbNzyi8&feature=related This is even more than the ROTS DVD showed on it's short documentary of the EP 1 CGI Yoda.

 

This is from STAR WARS IN CONCERT.

Author
Time
 (Edited)


 

This seems to be the best place for this discussion

----------------------

Sevb32 said:

Hey this is off topic but those looking for more of the CGI Yoda proof in EP1 look no further than here starting at 2:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF8yjbNzyi8&feature=related This is even more than the ROTS DVD showed on it's short documentary of the EP 1 CGI Yoda.

 

This is from STAR WARS IN CONCERT.

----------------------

IS it me or did they screw with the color in that scene (again!) Could someone put up a Spit screen comparison 

Bingowings said: Do you want to see the project finished as a playable film or a flick book?

Author
Time

TMBTM said:

Ghost said:

But wouldn't Bens line in ANH "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned evil" give it away? Or at least the idea of it.

Damn, you have a strong point here... I feel ashamed not having thought about it.

 

That is really no argument at all - Ben also told Luke half truths and flat out lies - ie: that Vader murdered anakin.- When he apparently KNEW otherwise.

Ben later told Luke about Anakin ceasing to be himself and becoming Darth Vader - In regards to this earlier quote above - he could simply have been stating similar circumstances - or at least events to his knowledge.

Did he know of another fallen Jedi who took up the VADER mantle?

 

 

 

Author
Time

BarBar Jinkx said:

 

This seems to be the best place for this discussion

----------------------

Sevb32 said:

Hey this is off topic but those looking for more of the CGI Yoda proof in EP1 look no further than here starting at 2:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF8yjbNzyi8&feature=related This is even more than the ROTS DVD showed on it's short documentary of the EP 1 CGI Yoda.

 

This is from STAR WARS IN CONCERT.

----------------------

IS it me or did they screw with the color in that scene (again!) Could someone put up a Spit screen comparison 

I'll try my best!

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

Author
Time

whats wrong with the colors?

I find them at last saturated enough to match the other PT.

FINALY!

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

Author
Time

Yep.. There he is... CG Yoda.. But yet, no announced plans for a release.

Author
Time

The colors are off on both the screencaptures I found online and the screencaptures I made off of a YouTube video of a guy pointing a camera at a massive LED screen, but here is the visual comparison of Yodas:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/CGI%20Yoda/CGI-Yodo-Shot1.png

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/CGI%20Yoda/CGI-Yodo-Shot2.png

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/CGI%20Yoda/CGI-Yodo-Shot3.png

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/CGI%20Yoda/CGI-Yodo-Shot4.png

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/CGI%20Yoda/CGI-Yodo-Shot5.png

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

Author
Time

Obviously CG Yoda looks much better but why does he look angry all the time? The old Yoda looked curious and contemplative (and also on crack). This yoda looks downright angry!

Author
Time

One should also take note that the SWIC image is taller\wider in some cases.  Interesting, I wonder how they managed that?  Is there more image on the 35mm that they cropped out?  Did SWIC have access to MORE of the image than normally available?

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

Author
Time

I like the angry look. Suspicious and stuff. Dark times. maybe cant win Yaddle's heart and thats why is like that :(

 

-Angel

–>Artwork<–**

Author
Time

That's a point, is Yaddle still a puppet?

Not that she has much screen time.