¤ THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK ¤ The "OPTIMUM EDITION" Score Reconstruction, Remixing & Restoration Version 3 (Released) — Page 4

Sumguy21 said:

Yeah, thought it was a bit quiet compared to your original edit. Made comparing them difficult.

I've got too sensitive ears... But that's justly what allows me to improve those tracks ;D

Were the relative levels on v1 correct? I mean, did you go over every track and set a new max. volume or turned up everything the same amount.
For example cd1 main title vs. cd2 imp. march, the imp. march should get a little more volume than the former, or??

It must be difficult to set the relative track volume for a set with so many edits as this, some tracks probably have/should have much lower volume because they weren't played as loud as others.

ABC, I'd really like to know a bit about what kind of software/hardware you use for this, editors or plugins or whatever.. Do you work with mastering professionally or are you just insanely talented? ;)

satanika said:

Were the relative levels on v1 correct? I mean, did you go over every track and set a new max. volume or turned up everything the same amount.

Indeed, I set the max volume for each track... That's why it's a nightmare.

It must be difficult to set the relative track volume for a set with so many edits as this...

It's quite difficult, mostly with such a score as is the ESB one. Besides if you listen to the anthology you may find a lot of mistakes in the volumes settings, even in one single track. That's why I separated a lot of segments to reedit the tracks: to fix both the EQ's and volumes when they did not match exactly. Though I can make mistakes too, It has become more accurate in this edit I think. The SE has also very low tracks next to very loud ones if I can remember.

... some tracks probably have/should have much lower volume because they weren't played as loud as others.

You mean when you're tempted to make a track like "Crash Landing on Dagobah" sounds louder because there is "The Asteroid Field" next to it ? It's a trap. ;) Well, it's a bit like drawing, you have to consider the shape, and what is around the shape: emptyness. For that I use to concentrate on what is the more silent: the extreme highs and lows, and mostly the noise or far hiss remaining in the ultra highs or mediums. But I don't say it's easy and can make a lot of mistakes before it fits. That's the way of  learning experience.
As much difficult or worse is when you have a track with an uncomparable clarity next to more narrow recordings. ESB score is world champion about that.

Edit: another exemple that comes to my mind is the strong resonance you can meet or not in a track, resonance that is sometimes located in the high freqs (Aboard the Executor, The Battle In the Snow), sometimes in the lows (Luke's First Crash), or in the mediums. This has a strong influence on the volumes settings, and sometime you have to choose to make one sound louder or lower considering the effect it has to give next to the others, then I think there is no so called "exact" volume for these tracks, it's only the whole thing that decides and tend to bring you make the good choice. Yes, this score is a real headache ! :) To notice the resonance I mentionned has been managed - or even displaced - during the remixings for it makes sound the orchestra in the more natural way. Mostly the horns are a very good guide to fix the mediums and highs resonance.

Sure that all that I just said here would have deserved to be stated in post 1. But if you can appreciate the result that's enough for me. ;)

ABC, I'd really like to know a bit about what kind of software/hardware you use for this, editors or plugins or whatever.. Do you work with mastering professionally or are you just insanely talented? ;)

Ah, you ask a lot. :) ... I tend to remain silent about it so cheap are my ways. I'm totally untutored about any kind of technical knowledge about sound enginering. What's funny is that we keep a 15 years old computer here wich looks like an old engine (BULL computer though), and it shows me all in every details when it has what I think to be a "basic" ATI soundcard, next to the actual (recent) one on wich I only edit the tracks and wich even with all effects disabled is unable to show me the subtleties (with the same headphones, let's precise) I put in my work !
What I'm using then for the remixing is an old version of something that looks like a burning colliseum, and gives here again more accurate results -from both what I've heard and experienced- than the latests so called "Express" versions... For the edits I only use Audacity, when for the OT S Salvage I used to edit with the default computer's magnetophone. (LOL !)

... So, looks like it turns the answer to the second option in your question. Then thank you, I'm really glad to see I'm not only dreaming when it looks like it occured a true enhancement in these recordings. :)

Thanks for all the info, a little surprised you have such a 'lo-tech' setup, but I guess your ears are the most important tool.. ;)

... And with the original mastertapes ! :)

Worth to add the Anthology and mostly the SE have so much useless frequencies to get rid of that I have to apply a double equalization most of the time: the first to sweep away what needs to be, the second to call back or enhance the main qualities of the tracks. I win more accuracy that way. Only the RSO doesn't need such a treatment.

Actually I don't deserve any credits as the volume was the most obvious to me when I had a brief "glimpse" on the music. I didn't notice that on the Film Score. When I started it on the PC I had to increase the volume on the amplifier which came as a surprise compared to the other alternative scores.
Actually, I didn't want to create another headache for ABC. Sorry!

Its really impressive to create such an improvement with restricted equipment! Why don't we get such clarity in the first place (the official version)? What kind of "expert" is working in the studio? Are they (Sony, Arista) aiming at a "baseline" sound for each kind of player: From discman to stereo equipment?
I mean: When I was a kid I played music on my ghettoblaster and was used to radio music with refrains. Epic recordings like "The End" by The Doors didn't get my attention then. When I got older my equipment changed to hi-fi, and "The End" was blowing me away with its volume changes. What I try to say: Has Sony tried to create an average mix to "satisfy" customer with ghettoblasters up to hi-fi equipment likewise? The London Symphony Orchestra included 100 musicians but we didn't get to hear the subtle tones created by the instruments?!

"It's a Sony" is getting an ironic tone thanks to ABC.

Obi-Wan said:

When I started it on the PC I had to increase the volume on the amplifier which came as a surprise compared to the other alternative scores.

Yeah, I know. But I always thought the ESB "salvage" version was too loud. So I think I was afraid to enhance once again the same "saturation" problems with the actual one... Also in "THE SET" part of post 1 when it leaded to the link for the 1st CD1, I added at a moment a note to express my doubts about the volume and asked if anybody thought the same. But no answer in the topic. But ok, obviously I should have tried instead of asking ! 

Actually, I didn't want to create another headache for ABC. Sorry!

Haha !!!... If it's the price to pay to justify the "Optimum" title... :)

Its really impressive to create such an improvement with restricted equipment!

I forgot to tell that for such an edit I filled about 30 pages of notes.

Also it's quite interesting to notice that new material (edit...) equipment often makes less good work than old ones. I've got a load of exemples, but... Let's stay on topic.

But you are using the material played by The London Symphony Orchestra in general. There is no track that includes parts of the Utah Symphony Orchestra (Korngold) or other Orchestra combined with the London Symphony Orchestra - correct?

But no answer in the topic.

Shame on us but we did trust your valuation in such a way that the remark about the volume seemed to be a minor note, I guess. Seems like we got a wake up call and are keen to send the Arista/Sony-mixes in a vault where they belong now.

Obi-Wan said:

But you are using the material played by The London Symphony Orchestra in general.

Correct. By "material" I meant "equipment", softwares etc... Sorry if my English way to "speak" may be confusing.

... "It's a Sony" is getting an ironic tone thanks to ABC.

You're never better served than by yourself (French proverb). ;)

Thanks I'll check it. However I still need the 15 year old computer to remix the sound, and it has so low memory that I even can't open a 10 minutes track with its default magnetophone ! Imagine. :)

Working the sound is more like an addictive hobby here, so please don't help me ! lol !!! ESB has been a lot more time consuming than reasonable and I think all this is ending there. The ANH special project may be left undone. To be said that ESB has turned so good these days (the new volume settings made possible a couple of last minute improvements) that I'd feel very good ending on that one.

... The new final CD1 is burning now. CD2 should be finished soon. Indeed the new volumes allowed me to compare with the "Salvage" version (I use to avoid comparisons) and this time I'm afraid this one will remain in Obi-Wan's vault with the other editions... What I felt: it looks like the Force next to the Power of the dark side ! ;)

Still have to check now on a Hi-Fi if the new "Darth Vader's Trap" suite remixing is really ok.

Post removed (too late)

flynn2000 said:

ABC, would you like to take a crack at Return of the Jedi's score?

 First, thanks for the post ;)

To "take a crack"? What does it mean (sorry my English is limited)?

... If it means you want to see me restore Return Of The Jedi score you're not very curious ! Just click on my signature, check post1, grab the whole thing and please shout in the topic what you've heard ! Lol !

I'm amazed such a work still gets ignored when it's under the nose of every body who just keep on dreaming about it... With me keeping on bumping the topic from time to time to keep you aware that it's here! That's why I'm a little pissed off about the (no) feedbacks matter and more widely the share matter. Most people who find it don't let you know, they just keep it for themselves.

Don't know if I guess right your question though but it gives me the occasion to rant once more about it. :) ... To notice that when the current project will be finished, it may be forgotten as well, after it survived for a while because of the topic title perhaps, and mostly thanks to feedbacks.

But you are using the material played by The London Symphony Orchestra in general.

In this case the term "material" meant the stuff that has been played by The London Symphony Orchestra. (the original)
["equipment" stands for hardware: amplifier, CD-player, speakers, headphones; software is software]

You could have decided - as you have worked on the tracks in segments - to put in some parts played by another orchestra (a "copy"). That would have changed the track in general of course. But we are talking about an Optimum Edition, aren't we?! An optimum could be achieved by surpassing the original by a copied segment.

e.g.: I don't know if you know this early DDD-recording from 1990 (http://www.amazon.com/John-Williams-Conducts-Star-Trilogy/dp/B000002712).
It contains an extended "Throne Room and Finale" track (7:57 min.) and it might includes tracks that might be "optimum". However "it's a Sony" ...

"For this recording 20-bit technology was used for 'high definition sound"." (source: CD-backcover) ... those were the days when they advertised VHS-recorders with a "HQ"-mark - "high quality", of course.

Obi-Wan said:

e.g.: I don't know if you know this early DDD-recording from 1990 
It contains an extended "Throne Room and Finale" track (7:57 min.) and it might includes tracks that might be "optimum". However "it's a Sony" ...

Hehe, indeed it has. The "Throne Room and Finale" from the Skywalker Symphony Orchestra is a very good track and you can compare it right away with the London Symphony version on the... Let's go for a big advertising:

THE OT SOUNDTRACKS SALVAGE ? 8CD's

Lol !

But I think the SSO version is no more match next to the LSO version as rendered in this set. Please let me say I especially love the SW score as I did it for this project, when it seems most people are more excited by the (almost optimum though) RotJ.

The bad thing is that all the bonus tracks in the "OT ST salvage" where lossy. I bought the Sony CD since though (and also the C Gerhardt, be assured). The Optimum track to meon the SSO is Leia's Theme (as for the score)... And the best from it in general are the SW ones besides and the peaceful themes.

FINAL VERSION Re-Up

Let's sum up what's new...

- Whole set: all volumes up

- CD1: a bunch of last tiny but essential re-EQ's (mostly the "battle" part score). It looks now fully equilibrated to me. I think the whole CD has a strong cohesion.

- CD2: some more re-EQ's in the first tracks, as for "Carbon Freeze" and "Darth Vader's Trap".

ARTWORKS: A larger choice of covers + forgotten anotation on back cover.

...

I'll post some help to make it "easy to find" for everyone when I'll be in a wonderful  mood, and forget about the "no feedbacks = topic & links goodbye =no share with the others" matter (What may be noticeable when a big smiley appears in "THE SET" part of post 1).  

flynn2000 said:

 And Don't worry, your english appears to be quite excelent too me.

Yihaaa! :)

Thank you for the reminder about the Jedi score. I had forgoten who did that one, but it's very nice.

Now I just need to convert this music to a more portable format so that I don't have to sit at my computer to listen to it.

 Should be forbidden to listen to such thing on a computer ! ;)

... Such a gadget should be forbidden too.

how come? It sounds just as good on my iPod with my good headphones (not the crappy small ones) as on the computer. It doesn't beat my 5.1 system however. 

JediMasterFisher said:

how come? It sounds just as good on my iPod with my good headphones (not the crappy small ones) as on the computer.

 That's what I'm saying... Unfortunately :)

oh so it isn't good enough on the computer either? lol