Vaderisnothayden said:
xhonzi said:
Come now, it's a what if question. We all know it's an EU story, but why can't it cast implications back on events in the RotJ? The point of the EU is to get more of something you like, is it not? If so, don't you want it to actually cause you to revisit the thing that you like and maybe see it in a new light?
No way. The EU stuff is just some merchandising story thought up years later. It's alien to ROTJ. Its implications don't belong in ROTJ. To see ROTJ in the light of EU material like DE or Zahn's books is to pollute and twist the core canon with alien material that doesn't belong.
I can revisit ROTJ quite well with without dragging the EU into it. And the point of the eu is make money for lucas and that's all it's for.
Fair enough. Is the point of RotJ any different then? Is the point of any consumable any different?
Did we ever get a comprehensive list of things that the Force could and couldn't do? I must have missed that.
I never said we got such a list. But there doesn't need to be any such list for my point to stand. The point is that we never got any indication that the force could do that (transfer minds into clones), so there's no reason why we should assume Palpatine's likely to go transferring his mind into clones.
Did we see any clones in the OT? Did you see a Rancor in ANH or ESB? Did you see Hoth in ANH? Did anyone ever mention Yoda prior to ESB? Did anyone says <SPOILER> Vader was Luke's dad and Leia was Luke's sister </SPOILER> when the characters were introduced in ANH?
If you don't like the story, that's fine. But if you want to discuss this with me, please let's discuss it at the same level. If I ask what I think is a well thought out question and you respond with: "Teh prequels suck!" then we're not really discussing anything, are we?
I'm hardly merely saying I don't like something. I'm refusing to go along with your attempt to reinterpret ROTJ in the light of DE, because I don't agree with doing that. I'm perfectly entitled to go that way if I want to.
Yes, you are. I assume I am likewise entitled to go my own way? Fleetwood Mac says that I can!
My argument that such EU-based reinterpretation of ROTJ/the OT is mistaken is a valid point of view.
Is my saying that it is "not mistaken" also a valid point of view?
I also discussed the viability of the argument that it was logical to assume from what we saw in the films that Palpatine would go resurrecting himself in clones that had his mind. I pointed out that the films did not provide enough to support the argument that it naturally followed from the films that Palpatine would go resurrecting himself in clones that had his mind. I do think we're discussing something. But both of us are entitled to discuss it in the way we choose.
Seriously, I don't want to ruin your fun and all,
Where's that picture of Tommy Lee Jones when I need it?
but I feel very strongly that eu doesn't belong in the OT and I think I'm entitled to express that view. (And if that's how I feel, imagine how I feel about Bash Fender's ship the Outsider or whatever being put in the SE.)
VINH- I think you made some great strides in this post. You actually called your opinion an "opinion." As far as I've seen, that's a first. You get into some strange arguments here because you usually saunter in declaring your opinion as fact and casting down anyone who doesn't agree with you. I think you'd get on better here if you were a little more aware of other people's opinions.
So, you don't like the EU. At all. Fine. This is obviously a thread about the EU. While we (or I alone, as the case may be here) want to get into the weeds and discuss the finer points, we don't really want you to come crashing through our sandbox, knocking down my lovely castle, and telling us you don't like sand. The question was, and yes this is more articulate here than it was above: "If you accept the EU, how does Vader's sacrifice change in light of Palpatine's clones?" Saying the EU sucks is pretty much a troll answer to that question.