TheBoost said:

xhonzi said:

I think the delted scene about the lost 24 seems to back you up here. Personally, I don't buy it. How could there not be Dark Jedi? How could there not be Dark Jedi in almost equal number to Light Jedi? It's the line that all Jedi must walk, right? Does the Force only speak to the pure in heart? If so, then there is no threat of Luke becoming Vader II (or III or IV or LXI) and you need some kind of convoluted reason for why Anakin fell.

If the Jedi can just as easily be bad as good, then it makes them a big X-factor for the normal citizens of the galaxy and it just might be easier if they all went away and the proverbial baby was thrown out with the proverbial bath water.

But that's what's in the OT. Vader being seduced by the dark side was a big deal, so it must be uncommon.

I think we might have to agree to disagree here. I think Anakin is a big deal for personal reasons, not statistical ones. His fall is a big deal because we knew and loved him. And because he had so much potential to be a great Jedi. If your brother went to jail, you would feel a lot differently than seeing a ton of people you don't know in jail. Or if your no-good cousin went to jail (like mine did) that would be a lot different than your favourite cousin that you trust implicitly going to jail. It's a personal tragedy, not a galactic one.

Or, perhaps. Anakin is such a strong force user that his turn to the Dark Side has galactic consequences whereas Bob the Jedi falling to the Dark Side- not so much.

Perhaps the Force does only speak to the pure of heart. It seems likely. Being "Strong in the Force" isn't just a random mutation, but perhaps a special calling.

Yeah, it's hard to say. The mystical part of it suggests that it comes to the pure in heart... but the corruptibility is there not only for Anakin, but for Luke as well. So... of the 5 force users we see in the OT, 2 are bad and 1 is in danger of becoming bad as he develops his skills and strives to do the right thing. The 2 that are good are hermits or are so passive that they decide suicide in front of their pupil is the only way to win a lightsabre fight.

In other words, ANH seems to say that Luke can use the force because he is pure in heart. But ESB seems to say that he can blow it by being too human, too reckless, and too much like his father. RoTJ seems to say that if you stay the course, not only is it possible to remain pure, but to triumph over pure evil and to redeem the fallen.

What do we know about the jedi from the OT?

Guardians of Peace and Justice for a hecka long time.

Betrayed and Murdered by Darth Vader.

They begin training younger than their early 20s, apparently by Yoda or perhaps other Masters.

Anakin fell because he was angry and impatient. It is possible he was trained poorly and began too old.

If the Jedi can just as easily be good or bad, then they aren't Guardians of Peace and Justice in the Galaxy. They're just a bunch of people with superpowers.

I guess that brings back the discussion of "Dark Jedi/Sith." Taking what you say above, I can say, "Yes. The Jedi were all good and none were servants of the Dark Side. Likewise, the Sith were all bad and none were Guardians of Peace and Justice." I'll repeat that I'm not terribly interested in using the term Sith as an all purpose "Dark Jedi." Maybe "Fallen Jedi" is more of use since it describes them as a sub-set of the Jedi that generic statements like "The Jedi were..." may not apply to.

Good discussion.