Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 88

" it's much more sincere than the original"

That's a great compliment.  

I just want to say to others about to watch: don't get your hopes up.  The Anakin dub on this rough cut in particular is incredibly bad.  I can say that now because I see this objectively.  Like I said before, it sounds exactly like somebody recording a dub into a microphone.  

I would say the same about the music and the editing.  Were I to do it now, I would make some different choices for the music.  Most significantly, I would try not to stray too much, too often into blatant romanticism, the way I did over and over again here, for better or worse.  

When I did this, I think I was more concerned with making all of it good and jumping at every opportunity to put more feeling/humanity into the movie (and making the plot feel coherent) but the problem, and Octorox kind of touched on this, is that the time period is unclear.  There are a few parts that feel 80's, some (with the CG) that feel like 2000's, some cuts that feel 70's, some background music that sounds 60's, and a few parts (like the big kiss on Naboo) that hearkens back to 40's movies.  

I tried to give it continuity together, but I'm not sure how successful I was, again, in sticking to the OT Star Wars mold.  I mean, I put my own style into it.  I did a few things I know George Lucas wouldn't do.  Again, for better or worse.

I'll be looking forward to hear what others think.  

I'll be sending a copy to Johnny Ringo in Australia.

But the UK is still unspoken for.

The Concierge said:

Agh! The wait! I hope my being in Canada doesn't extend this suffering...

I'ts incredibly unpredictable. I'm in Ontario and I've had stuff get to the States before it got to another province! One guy in Nevada got a package I sent Tuesday on Saturday! I couldn't believe it! And then there are times I mail something to New Brunswick and it takes over a week. :p

Unfortunately, I have only had time to watch half of it so far, but I can't wait to finish it.

I haven't watched AOTC since it first came out on DVD, I have seen it a grand total of two times, I think. I didn't enjoy it either time, it is definitely NOT one of my favorite movies and usually I associate the thought of watching it with torture.

The appeal of TM's edit when I first read this thread all those years ago, and none of us took it seriously, was that he seemed to feel the same way about this movie I did and wanted to do such a radical edit that it would really change and improve the film in a way that conventional means of fanediting could never dream of.

As I said, I am enjoying a film I absolutely hate, kind of hard to wrap my brain around. It has been so long since I have seen any of the prequels, and the last time I heard Anakin talk was probably in some of TM's clips he posted, so strangely, the voice didn't seem at all out of place to me, but seemed pretty natural. Only issue with it to me is of course the technical aspect of it, doesn't always sound like he is in the same place as the character he is speaking with. As for Jar Jar's voice, I absolutely love it.

The actual edit itself is very well done, overall the new voice acting is a very small part of the thing as a whole, and the fanedit itself is so far beyond what I have seen anybody else do with this film, or would have thought possible. A new bench mark has definitely been set for AOTC edits. Perhaps this will inspire others to take TM's ideas and take them further.

I'd still like to see this completed someday, but honestly, I am really happy to get to see this, and do not find its rough state to hinder my enjoyment. I wish I had the money to hire TM full time, I'd love to see what he could do to that dog of a film known as Revenge of the Sith.

Karl Katarn said:

Will Johnny be sending to others in Australia?

Yes.

So I had a chance to watch the whole thing last night. I don't want to go into too many details and spoil things for those that haven't seen it yet. But I will say the romance between Padme and Anakin is the MOST IMPROVED aspect of this film. In the past I've wondered if it would ever be possible to improve the romance, and thanks to Trooperman we see it can be done.

The voiceovers were a mixed bag, but that was to be expected for this rough cut. Anakin was the best of the bunch (except for one too many grunts). Some of the others, not so much.

I had issues with some of the music choices, especially where some cues from a certain other sci-fi movie were used. But Trooperman has already discussed this.

The Dooku lightsaber duel was very well done, though I had some logistical issues with someone's placement near the end.

Windu's blue lightsaber looked great!

I have more feedback, but I should probably withhold it until more people get a chance to check this out.

And I still need to get hold of someone in the UK to send this to.

Just got mine in the mail! Hopefully I can watch this tonight or tomorrow...  :D  :D  :D

We're having postal strikes here in the UK so it's going to take even longer than normal :(

Well....I got in the mail, and I watched it. WOW! I can't even tell you how much AOTC is trash after this! So much to say, but I'll leave that for other to find. It is very much a rough cut as you said, and It still needs lots of work. The first 2/3 was FREAKIN AMAZING. The detective/love story was so well done it's not even funny!!!!! Your voice as anakin was very nice for the most part, but I'm not so sure about jar jar lol. The only problem I had was the battle at then ending, it was ummmmm, well, all I can say is independence day, but I know what you were going for, kinda a new hopeish, and I was'nt to hot one the new clone voices, but again, I knew what you were tying to do.

Can wait to give you a full review, and see this done one day. I was worth all those years of wait! *hugs*

....And I'm surprised that people are actually liking the Anakin dub. I think technically there are a lot of scenes that sound like a voiceover, and there are few line readings where I cringe every time, but I guess there's some good acting every once in a while.

Octorox said:

I have to disagree with everyone about the stormtrooper chatter. Even tho it wasnt the best technically it was one of my favorite changes. I did notice the music was mixed very low on a lot of parts tho. Also, I'd pitch up Anakin's VO. He sounds just a little too manly, I feel he should retain Luke's awkward man-boyishness. Also I noticed prevalent fade in fade outs, which goes against Star Wars editing conventions.

 'Prevalent' is the correct word (it was only used, what, twice?). Because the fading out technique was used in ANH. As the droids follow Luke into the garage.

I got to watch it last night and really really enjoyed it! I thought i'd comment on the fades because that didn't actually bother me...it felt very natural...like out of the OT...i feel Lucas should have used it at times in the PT...not just limiting himself to wipes only. Also I would've like Lucas to use more hard cuts...why so many wipes?

I'm gonna write up a full review soon....just thought i'd throw that in there.  ;)

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

I'm gonna write up a full review soon....just thought i'd throw that in there.  ;)

Please don't be afraid to include "spoilers" or details of what's changed, because some of us are sitting here and have no idea what's been changed that you would be commenting on.

I'm hoping I'll get my copy next week. Wasn't in today's mail and we don't get mail on Saturdays in Canada. (well, except those couple of times, when I'm guessing they were just really far behind because of storms and had no choice)

OK here we go...

SOTDS is alot of fun! There. That is all. I'm done.

Just kidding.  ;)

OK, I'm gonna be kind of all over the place:

Editing: I personally think the first few scenes up until the Jedi council scene is the tightest as far as editing goes. Not to say it was terrible after that. But I was really invested up until that point. After the nightclub scene the characters wander around for a while before they start doing things again (the investigation and Anakin/Padme leave). I would think Padme's attempted assisination should put things into motion alot quicker...of course Lucas's version was even slower! lol :D

I should mention that the first few lines in Palps office really surprised me. I liked how you kept Padme out of the Dooku conversation. "I think Count Dooku was behind it." blech! ;) Although I don't care for the way the entire scene was flipped around horizonatlly. Everyone looks...off...for lack of a better word.

Use of deleted scenes: Hmm...well, the thing is...I just don't think they do much for the movie. The senate scene does help explain a bit more of what's going on. And of course the other scenes helps flesh out Padmes character a bit more. But they don't further the story. IMHO.

Yoda: I know what you were going for with the shots of Yoda where the frames per second were played with...but I would say get rid of it. If it can't be done for all of his shots...it just looks weird. Plus it looks more like stop motion than Oz performing him. Too bad though...I loved the idea...just not so much the execution.

The color "correction" (what is the correct word?) works in some of the scenes...I particularly liked the purple-ish look of the droid factory. But on the whole I'm not so sure...obviously *something* needs to be done to alot of the scenes within the film...then again I am no color expert... :)

Voices: Anakin's voice is not horrible...although I think I would try to find someone who has the Vader accent (is it british?). Lama Su is great. Jar Jar: I really like the idea...but the character mumbled a bit...I had a hard time understanding what he said. Marcus Fett...eh. Clone Troopers...I'll have to go back and watch it again but I liked them alright. I think you were right to redub these particular characters...but I think making it really work comes down to the sound mix.

I really loved all of the new character interaction you've added/changed in the film. Anakin now behaves more like a real person! Yay! Lama Su's new dialouge and interaction with Obi-Wan is wonderful...I'm amazed at how much you were able to change in those few scenes he was in...very much improved!

The sound mix: Yes, it needs the most work. When it's completed, it will work sooo much better. I thought that I should mention that whenever you rearranged any of the dialouge to different places within the film I couldn't hear any music bleed through the voices...how did you do that? Very nice! :D

The whole mother thing: I love how you explained WHY the Jedi haven't done anything to help Anakins mother. That was simply great!

Addition of other movie footage: When other movie clips would come onto the screen it felt like I was watching an animatic or a workprint. This not only includes the battle at the end but also the nightclub scene. It just doesn't match the look of the rest of the movie. It pulled me out of the movie...especially the ID4 footage. Which goes into my next thought:

After effects would be a VERY valuable thing for this edit. So many things in this edit come so so so very very close to working really really really well...but without some software like after effects...well, it does indeed feel like an animatic of workprint. And I'm not just talking about the battle footage where it would come in handy. Even some scenes where the dialouge has been moved around or added/changed. One scene that came to my mind was where Padme and Anakin are on that ship headed for Naboo. There is a shot where Padmes footage was reversed which I *think* could be smoothed out using after effects. And another shot of Padme with the back of Anakins head where he begins to speak but nothing comes out. Something like after effects would help becuase you could isolate his head and keep it stable...becuase it does distract the eye. There are a few instances like that through out the movie.

I really hope I don't sound too harsh...I mean, I myself am known for my rough videos...and I really did enjoy this movie...there are so many things to enjoy...the new dialouge that helps explain things that needed explaining...things are more simplfied...the plot is not so sloppy anymore...the characters are more defined, more believable, and likable...the music is moving...the editing is much tighter...great GREAT stuff here, folks!

I hope everyone gets to see this real soon!

I am gonna sit and watch this again soon so I might have a few more things to point out...  :D

Trooperman, if there is anything you might like me to comment on spefically...like a certain scene you thought really worked well or didn't, I'll be glad to comment. Just let me know. I know what it's like to edit something and then have noone comment on that specific something.

Hi,

You all are being very, very helpful right now.  I appreciate everyone that has written in so far.  I'm going to wait to talk about some things until everyone has received their copy, but in the meantime while I have time here on the weekend, I want to address some reviews so that I don't fall behind.  

Octorox:

wow...just wow. amazing. Just got mine in the mail today and watched it. It's just a fantastic project. Certainly very rough, feels a bit like a workprint, not all of your choices I agree with, but I mean, you totally changed the mood and emotion of the film. It WORKS now! I mean wow...wow. If you need any help with anything, voice acting or otherwise, let me know, I may be able to help at some point. I'd comment on some specific sections, but I just want to let everyone see it first. I'll tell you I had a smile on my face when the clone troopers first showed up in battle. The music choices are interesting, they are definitely an improvement over the film's often bland OST but a lot of it feels TOO old. Like beyond star wars 77 old, like it belongs in a foreign film from the 40s or something. Same with the editing, a lot of it disregards continuity for emotion which I'm not sure is very Star Wars. The film feels older, it feels rawer and it works dramatically but I'm not sure if it feels like Star Wars, it doesn't feel 80s at all. I think this is definitely closer to what George wanted with the whole "classic romance" thing because it's much more sincere than the original. but again, wow. most ambitious edit ever and on all accounts it succeeds!

This was a good review.  Like I said earlier, were I to go back now there are a few cues I would definitely drop.  It’s just too far out there in comparison to the rest of the score.  

Continuity is definitely sometimes a problem.  I will address that later in another review.  I do appreciate the compliment on the overall film though, and that dramatically, it works now. 

C3PX:

As I said, I am enjoying a film I absolutely hate, kind of hard to wrap my brain around. It has been so long since I have seen any of the prequels, and the last time I heard Anakin talk was probably in some of TM's clips he posted, so strangely, the voice didn't seem at all out of place to me, but seemed pretty natural. Only issue with it to me is of course the technical aspect of it, doesn't always sound like he is in the same place as the character he is speaking with. As for Jar Jar's voice, I absolutely love it.

The actual edit itself is very well done, overall the new voice acting is a very small part of the thing as a whole, and the fanedit itself is so far beyond what I have seen anybody else do with this film, or would have thought possible. A new bench mark has definitely been set for AOTC edits. Perhaps this will inspire others to take TM's ideas and take them further.

Yes, technically the voice is not really up to par.  But on top of that, I think it would be a much better sell to get someone with a differently colored voice.  I just think it’d go better with the character onscreen.  But we’ll see how that works out.  

Thank you for the review.  AOTC was definitely my least favorite of the prequels; that’s why I tackled it first.

Erik:

I had a chance to watch the whole thing last night. I don't want to go into too many details and spoil things for those that haven't seen it yet. But I will say the romance between Padme and Anakin is the MOST IMPROVED aspect of this film. In the past I've wondered if it would ever be possible to improve the romance, and thanks to Trooperman we see it can be done.

Well, thanks to someone else too.  I have to hand a lot of the credit on the romance to Mark Haslett, who used to visit these forums.  He had come up with some story ideas about how things SHOULD have gone down- not for any particular edit- and then I started communicating with him and he gave me a lot of brilliant ideas and deeper reasons as to what was fundamentally wrong with the sequence of events in the original movie.  Now, a lot of changes I came up with independently- for example, the kiss on Naboo at the end, the dialogue in the picnic scene, using the Padme running shot without the monster ticks, etc.  And we had put together a rough cut of the fireplace scene but ultimately decided to cut it.  But Mark Haslett deserves a TON of credit for the driving ideas behind the love story.  It was his idea to cut the dialogue before the kiss on Geonosis down to….”Don’t be afraid.  I’m not afraid to die.  I love you.”  And then just move closer and closer until they kiss.  It was his idea to have the hug outside on Tatooine be silent (just music).  Etc. etc.  I can’t take credit for that.

The voiceovers were a mixed bag, but that was to be expected for this rough cut. Anakin was the best of the bunch (except for one too many grunts). Some of the others, not so much.

Yes, the voiceovers in general are what’s causing most of the difficulty getting this done.  

I had issues with some of the music choices, especially where some cues from a certain other sci-fi movie were used. But Trooperman has already discussed this.

I can already tell you I’m removing those 2 Star Trek cues.  Too identifiable.

The Dooku lightsaber duel was very well done, though I had some logistical issues with someone's placement near the end.

Yes, that’s a major, major problem.  It bothers me a great deal.  I’m still considering how to fix it.  It would be great if there was a long shot with all 3 of them, but of course there isn’t, because this scenario never even happened in AOTC.  So I painted myself into a corner…

Windu's blue lightsaber looked great!

Thank you. Still need to finish it though!

Josh:

Well....I got in the mail, and I watched it. WOW! I can't even tell you how much AOTC is trash after this! So much to say, but I'll leave that for other to find. It is very much a rough cut as you said, and It still needs lots of work. The first 2/3 was FREAKIN AMAZING. The detective/love story was so well done it's not even funny!!!!! Your voice as anakin was very nice for the most part, but I'm not so sure about jar jar lol. The only problem I had was the battle at then ending, it was ummmmm, well, all I can say is independence day, but I know what you were going for, kinda a new hopeish, and I was'nt to hot one the new clone voices, but again, I knew what you were tying to do.

Can wait to give you a full review, and see this done one day. I was worth all those years of wait! *hugs*

Thanks Josh.  Your enthusiasm is hard to beat!  Yes, we’ll have to do something about Jar-Jar.  I’ll address the flying shots from I.D. later on.  Again, glad you like it!

Hairy_hen:

“I watched the whole thing today with my girlfriend.  I probably enjoyed it more, since she was a bit put out by some of the alterations to things that had never bothered her to begin with (like getting rid of the Yoda fight), but we both liked it.”

Getting rid of the Yoda fight was very important to me.  What may have jarred your girlfriend was not so much that, but the obvious edited feel that comes with Anakin’s disappearing act.  It’s a big problem.

The biggest improvement to me was that Anakin no longer comes across as 'creepy stalker guy'.  I accepted his interest in Padme--and more importantly, her interest in him--and never felt that it was awkward or uncomfortable the way it is in AotC.  Getting rid of his petulance and giving him better dialogue improves the romance immensely.  The reinstatement of several deleted scenes strengthens Padme's character and their relationship along with it.

Thank you.  That’s exactly why they’re there.  People may think they don’t advance the plot…actually, they do.  Without them, you don’t buy that they fall in love.  They are necessary.  Also, after they land on Naboo, if you notice, I reinstated the deleted parts of the scene and cut out most of the lines they used in AOTC, the supposedly “plot related” lines.  Why?  They’re falling in love.  All I did in that particular scene, by the way, was kept the conversation on personal details, and cut out any time in which Padme berates Anakin like a little boy.   Watch the scene in the original cut to see the difference.

As far the quality of the Anakin dub . . . it works.  Sure it could use some improvement of integration into the sound field, and a few lines here and there could be re-done, but honestly, I only found myself thinking about the fact that it was a dub a few times while watching.  Mostly, it disappeared into the film and just seemed right, which is also helped by the dialogue improvements.

Thanks.  I do think the new dialogue adds a lot.

I liked the dream sequence--it reminded me a lot of Hitchcock's Vertigo.

Thank you!  I was hoping someone would notice that sequence.  I’m particularly proud of the red against black Tusken graphic- very retro looking, don’t you think?  

The other big improvement to the movie came with the music editing.  I don't know why they hacked up the original score so much in the finished film, but that problem is completely gone here.  

Thank you.  That was a major goal on this.  The score in the original was bland, chopped up, and mixed down.  Many edits just tried to mask their cuts with music fades, which just made it even worse.  Given the nature of this edit and the radical cuts I would be making, combined with my love of music and my desire to use it actively as part of the movie, I knew I would have to completely redo the sound mix, isolate dialogue, etc.  The result is hilarious…comparing the scores to this and to the original, the original is the one that sounds edited.  

I especially liked the appearances of music from Raiders of the Lost Ark, which made some formerly dull sequences come alive with tension and excitement.  The new title music is cool too; I don't remember what piece that is, but you can hear the Star Wars theme's resemblance to it, and it makes a nice change since we've all heard it so many times.  A particularly good transition came in the kiss scene on Naboo--going from the love theme in Episode 3 to another piece (I didn't recognise it, but it's good) was quite smooth due to the commonality of the key signatures.  

Exactly.  Actually, they were in different key signatures, but I deliberately manipulated it and looped a couple sections to the point where they were in the same signature and it made sense musically.  

I liked the feel of that scene, too: it resembled a film from the 30's or 40's.  Occasionally I found myself paying a bit more attention to the music used than to the film itself, but that's just because I am a music fan and focus a lot on that sort of thing anyway.

Yeah, me too! 

I'm not quite sure what C-3PO was trying to say when he first showed up.  That seemed strange, but we both laughed out loud when Owen said he couldn't even speak Bocce.  :)

Could you elaborate on what was confusing?  What you have to understand is that what I had in mind was that 3PO was introduced in this movie (i.e. Anakin didn’t built him).  So they first meet him, and he’s this protocol robot in the desert, and he’s going through all his introductions, oblivious to what Anakin wants, establishing him as over the top polite and dense at the same time, like the OT.  It was supposed to be funny….

The end battle sequence is pretty rough, obviously, but I could definitely see what it was trying to convey.  The dubbing of the stormtroopers sounded odd and kind of distracting (as were the shots from Independence Day, though I imagine those are only meant to be temporary placeholders).  In general, I felt that the quality of the cutting was good, and improved as it went along.  

Yeah.  Again, the ship shots are a problem.

The confrontation with Dooku almost works.  Anakin completely disappeared when Yoda showed up, only to suddenly reappear and get chopped, forcing Yoda to save them very quickly.  That fast pacing would be perfect if not for the disappearing act just prior, but due to the limitations of the existing shots I'm not sure what can be done about it . . .

Yes.  Major problem.  I don’t know what can be done either, but I’m thinking about it.  I have one idea that MIGHT work.  I’ll have to look at all available footage.  

The last time I watched AotC I remember thinking that one of the only good things about the movie was the enormous bass presence from the LFE channel, which made the explosions and lightsabers and ship engines extremely powerful.  Perhaps even too much so at times, but it made things at least somewhat interesting to listen to.  It would be cool to have some of that in a final version, but that's a relatively minor point.  

Sure, I can do that- that’s a piece of cake.

On a sound related note, the inclusion of saber and engine effects from the original trilogy helped give it more of a Star Wars feel--these sounds were familiar and right, as opposed to the foreign and strange sounds that fill the prequels in general.

Obviously, the movie is still derived from AotC, so there is only so much that can be done with the story.  I still prefer Timothy Zahn's original idea that the Clone Wars were fought by the Republic military against the 'clonemasters' who were trying to take over the galaxy; but obviously it's impossible to change the nature of the story that far.  Overall I found this to be an excellent new take on the film, somewhat akin to the way the Richard Donner version of Superman 2 improves drastically on the botched original release.  Trooperman, if you ever have the time and energy to finish this, it would be nothing short of fantastic!

Oh yeah, that Jar Jar dub . . . who the hell came up with that craziness?!  lol  I couldn't help but laugh when I heard it, because I'm always uncomfortable hearing my own voice, and can't judge it objectively.  My girlfriend didn't recognise that it was me, I guess because of the faux Britishness.  Some have liked it, some haven't . . . I'm quite willing to take another stab at recording it.  Pitched down as it was, I didn't even recognise myself in Mas Amadda's voice--I think that one probably worked better than the Jar Jar.

Well, I was a fan of the British Jar-Jar.  I do know that what we’ve got, we probably can’t use.  That comes down more to recording quality than anything else.  I think I’m going to try another voice for Jar-Jar, with an Indian accent, but I would love you to take another stab at Mas Amedda, with better equipment (or maybe just too far away from the mike, too much hiss…something).  But I do like both of the voices.

Thanks a lot for weighing in, and also for all your dubbing work.  Would you have time to take another stab at at least Mas Amedda?

Octorox:

Also I noticed prevalent fade in fade outs, which goes against Star Wars editing conventions.

Well, there are at least 2 in the original Star Wars, one with music over it (the fade after Luke looks out his binoculars and can’t find R2).  I thought I only used 2.  Maybe I used another one, I don’t remember.  I’ll admit the one before the nightmare is much longer than in the OT, but I think the sequence itself is a very different thing.  There was nothing comparable in the OT.  

Weezer:

Very interesting experience. Yes, the sound was huge problem, as the sound levels shifted dramatically throughout the film. But the ideas present were well-executed with what tools and time you had at your disposal. The beginning gave my chills, especially with the classic "Lucasfilm" logo and the new music in place of the classic "SW" fanfare. I'm of the opinion that Anakin's voice wasn't that bad in the original film; I actually found it quite distracting here. I think it would've been better if you had found a voice actor who sounds reasonably like Hayden Christensen and just asked him to record some new dialogue. 

Well, I am going to do something different if I ever finish this, but I think for consistency’s sake a new dub all the way through would be best.  I think if Spence is up for it, he’d do a fantastic job.  

The low voice was often unsettling. It reminded me at times of those "anonymous interviews" you see on shows like 60 Minutes where the interviewee's face is blacked out and his/her voice is pitched down a few steps. I also didn't like Jar-Jar's new voice, but maybe that's just because I'm so used to his original voice. Again, I think it would've been fine to find a voice actor who could do a decent Jamaican accent but without all the nonsense Gungan language. 

That’s something we’re working on too.  

I thought the use of my clonetrooper voices was a mixed bag. I was taken by surprise to hear practically all the lines kind of used simultaneously when they swoop into the arena, as it felt kind of forced, but later when you used them more sparingly, they seemed to fit better. 

Yeah, the placement is awful.  Really, when they first come in, it should be mostly explosions and lasers, not voices.  That won’t be a problem in future cuts.

And again, the sound levels made it hard to appreciate them, but again, this is just a technical shortcoming. I thought Jango's few lines when helmeted sounded good, but I would drop the "Take them away!" when he captures Anakin and Padme. In the context of the scene, the line doesn't make sense.

Why not?  I love the way they’re delivered.  Who recorded those, anyway.  Was it you? 

The sound is what clearly needs the most work. I found myself constantly adjusting the volume from scene to scene. I know this is a technical flaw that a more experienced editor can adjust and once this is patched up the film will be worlds better. :)

Yes.  That’s something any experienced editor could do, just by examining the lows and the highs of each piece of music, sound effects, etc……I didn’t have time to do it for this cut, but that would need to be fixed, definitely.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you worked on Yoda's movements, correct? They seem more jerky, like the original OT puppet. Very cool idea.

Thanks.  I thought it was good too.  I think I went a little too far in a few places, though.  

The only scene as a whole that didn't quite fit right for me was the reunion scene with Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme. The editing of the dialogue and cutting back in forth between character's expressions felt very awkward to me. The scene is salvageable, but I feel the way it currently stands, it doesn't quite work.

Which scene is that again?

I also have to give you major kudos for the kauhaun scene in Padme's bedroom. The way you edited it, coupled with your choice of music, actually made my spine tingle--i.e., we officially have TENSION!! Though it came early on in the film, I can honestly say this is the scene that you totally improved in every possible way.

Thank you.  I love that scene.  I’m particularly proud of when the music enters and how the music and the dialogue sort of take turns.  I agree, with a better Anakin dub this scene would be incredible.

I have to compliment the use of music--it was my favorite part of the film. The ESB music during the speeder chase, first kiss scene (very artfully done, I must add), the Obi-Wan/Jango fight, and the aerial scene leading up to the duel with Dooku were the biggest highlights for me. Oh yeah, and it was a really nice touch having "Anakin's Theme" play over the elevator scene (felt completely natural to me) as well as the Death Star fanfare when Dooku activates the hologram! Pure nostalgia! :)  

Thank you!  Having prominent music that actually made a statement and propelled the movie forward was a big priority, I remember.

I can also appreciate what you did with the lightsaber duel, though, like another poster previously stated, the positioning of Anakin during the duel after Yoda appears doesn't quite work. But I have to applaud the way you managed to work around the Force lightning standoff and the saber duel between Dooku and Yoda.  

Thank you.  I agree with you and everyone else that it doesn’t work as-is, because Anakin disappears and then reappears.  We have to cut him in in-between somehow.  

I may have more thoughts later, but this is what's come to me as I write. All in all, well worth the wait! I'm certain that once this thing is officially complete, this will no doubt rank as the most revered and accomplished fan edit out there.

Thank you.

SSWR:

OK here we go...

SOTDS is alot of fun! There. That is all. I'm done.

Just kidding.  ;)

OK, I'm gonna be kind of all over the place:

Editing: I personally think the first few scenes up until the Jedi council scene is the tightest as far as editing goes. Not to say it was terrible after that. But I was really invested up until that point. After the nightclub scene the characters wander around for a while before they start doing things again (the investigation and Anakin/Padme leave). I would think Padme's attempted assisination should put things into motion alot quicker...of course Lucas's version was even slower! lol :D

Thanks.  I agree.  That’s kind of a limitation of the source material, though.  It’s slow, but there’s information there that’s important to the plot.  As it was, I really tried to strip it down.  Notice reduced time in the library, no child training session with Yoda, no alien diner scene, etc.  I tried!  

I should mention that the first few lines in Palps office really surprised me. I liked how you kept Padme out of the Dooku conversation. "I think Count Dooku was behind it." blech! ;) 

Yeah, wasn’t that an awful line?  It’s just such a bad setup.  

Although I don't care for the way the entire scene was flipped around horizonatlly. Everyone looks...off...for lack of a better word.

I thought it improved the framing at the time.  I could flip it back.  I don’t know.

Use of deleted scenes: Hmm...well, the thing is...I just don't think they do much for the movie. The senate scene does help explain a bit more of what's going on. And of course the other scenes helps flesh out Padmes character a bit more. But they don't further the story. IMHO.

See what I said above…I think it does actually further the romance.  Not each scene by itself, but in context and in the order that they’re in.  It’s a progression, ending with the kiss (rather than beginning with it, like in the original cut).  

Yoda: I know what you were going for with the shots of Yoda where the frames per second were played with...but I would say get rid of it. If it can't be done for all of his shots...it just looks weird. Plus it looks more like stop motion than Oz performing him. 

I think there’s an in-between step I can do that’ll reduce the jerkiness, but not make it as super fluid as in the original.  Say the frame rate is now at 12, and the original of course is at 24.  I could bring the Yoda close-ups to 18, or 20. 

Too bad though...I loved the idea...just not so much the execution.

The color "correction" (what is the correct word?) works in some of the scenes...I particularly liked the purple-ish look of the droid factory. But on the whole I'm not so sure...obviously *something* needs to be done to alot of the scenes within the film...then again I am no color expert... :)

Neither am I.  I do like the droid factory.  It went from looking really cheesy to looking really artistic and dangerous looking- almost like a painting sometimes.  I think the music also helped there.  Before, it was a mishmash featuring the love theme prominently (Oh, look!  Padme’s in danger!  Let’s play the love theme.).  The approach I took, though, was that if this were in the OT, the effects and the “newness” of it all (all the machines and everything) would be such that the music would be emphasizing the adventure and the incredible nature of it all.  That’s the thing.  I think the prequels took too much for granted.  Like that flying scene.  The effects are so good now that we’ll just use this light, trivial, music.  WRONG.  Even with CG effects, we need this kind of, “What I’m seeing right now is incredible!” type of music to keep it fresh and innocent, and new.  That’s what I did with the speeder chase in Coruscant.  Watch the old one from AOTC to see what I’m saying.  

Voices: Anakin's voice is not horrible...although I think I would try to find someone who has the Vader accent (is it british?). Lama Su is great. 

Lama-Su really is great.  When I put those scenes together I was shocked.  He’s a good actor.  He makes this weird long necked creature sound so convincing.  He gave him a personality.  I was very impressed with that.  

Jar Jar: I really like the idea...but the character mumbled a bit...I had a hard time understanding what he said. Marcus Fett...eh. Clone Troopers...I'll have to go back and watch it again but I liked them alright. I think you were right to redub these particular characters...but I think making it really work comes down to the sound mix.

Yeah- that and making sure that the voices and the character onscreen seem to match.

I really loved all of the new character interaction you've added/changed in the film. Anakin now behaves more like a real person! Yay! Lama Su's new dialouge and interaction with Obi-Wan is wonderful...I'm amazed at how much you were able to change in those few scenes he was in...very much improved!

The sound mix: Yes, it needs the most work. When it's completed, it will work sooo much better. I thought that I should mention that whenever you rearranged any of the dialouge to different places within the film I couldn't hear any music bleed through the voices...how did you do that? 

Very, very carefully and with a lot of time and effort.  

Very nice! :D

The whole mother thing: I love how you explained WHY the Jedi haven't done anything to help Anakins mother. That was simply great!

Thank you.  That is a really important point.  The whole mother story I talked over with Mark Haslett as well.  That’s why at the beginning, Anakin isn’t obsessing over Padme- he’s obsessing over his mother.  That is critical because you feel more pain when she dies, and it becomes a lot clearer why Anakin starts down the dark path after that.  It just puts a lot more emotion into everything.  

Addition of other movie footage: When other movie clips would come onto the screen it felt like I was watching an animatic or a workprint. This not only includes the battle at the end but also the nightclub scene. It just doesn't match the look of the rest of the movie. It pulled me out of the movie...especially the ID4 footage. Which goes into my next thought:

After effects would be a VERY valuable thing for this edit. So many things in this edit come so so so very very close to working really really really well...but without some software like after effects...well, it does indeed feel like an animatic of workprint. And I'm not just talking about the battle footage where it would come in handy. Even some scenes where the dialouge has been moved around or added/changed. One scene that came to my mind was where Padme and Anakin are on that ship headed for Naboo. There is a shot where Padmes footage was reversed which I *think* could be smoothed out using after effects. And another shot of Padme with the back of Anakins head where he begins to speak but nothing comes out. Something like after effects would help becuase you could isolate his head and keep it stable...becuase it does distract the eye. There are a few instances like that through out the movie.

I really hope I don't sound too harsh...I mean, I myself am known for my rough videos...and I really did enjoy this movie...there are so many things to enjoy...the new dialouge that helps explain things that needed explaining...things are more simplfied...the plot is not so sloppy anymore...the characters are more defined, more believable, and likable...the music is moving...the editing is much tighter...great GREAT stuff here, folks!

I hope everyone gets to see this real soon!

I am gonna sit and watch this again soon so I might have a few more things to point out...  :D

Trooperman, if there is anything you might like me to comment on spefically...like a certain scene you thought really worked well or didn't, I'll be glad to comment. Just let me know. I know what it's like to edit something and then have noone comment on that specific something.

Yes, absolutely right.  I need some kind of ability to do effects (or know someone who can), not just for the ship shots, but for various continuity errors, smoothing out reverse footage, etc.  If I were able to use those tools on this edit, I’m sure it would look a lot more professional.  I had actually made a list of continuity errors at one point (like mouths moving at the end of shots with no audio, etc. that I was going to ask Adywan about....

Got to go now, but thanks again for all your input.  Look forward to hearing the rest of you!

-TM

I did! I remember the heated talks and the revisions it went through to make it perfect! And it was.