Darth Venal said:
CG is no good if it's dramaturgically...
That word made my head hurt more than when Anakin would whine about how friggin cold the spaceship was. I get it, you're from a desert. Put on a friggin jacket!
Darth Venal said:
...redundant.
Sounds familiar. Again.
Darth Venal said:
Shanerjedi:
I want a bellowing grunting tauntaun.
Me too! Me too! But I don't have a garden, nowhere for it to run. Damn.
Maybe the Tauntaun can chew off the stick robot when it asks what they want. Cool. And relevant.
Or just poop on it.
Think about it folks:
Here is Luke, now a jedi knight badass. He doesn't need a effing noisy-ass bike. In fact, he'd likely use his force powers to conceal his arrival until he gets right to the gate.
I mean, where is he supposed to park? In the dunes? On the path? At the door? Why? Why not just have him keep going and fly up through one of the windows like Harry Potter on a broomstick?
Better yet, why the hell didn't Ben have that bike in ANH when the sandpeople were out attacking Luke and stealing crap with his speeder? he was walking around with...wait for it...a hooded robe like some, oh I don't know, entrance into the film as a mysterious figure.
Add Ben on a speeder and have him give that dragon call and then have him swoop in do a CG backflip off the bike, and then whip out his saber and start taking out Tuskens.
If Dagobah is going to be added to the beginning, how will Luke get to Jabba's Palace? He would fly his ship. So have a scene of him flying in to Tatooine like Obi-Wan and Grievous on Utapau, and then have him have his conversation with Ben right before he is going to go in to Jabba's.
Could Luke and Bens conversation be moved to later in the movie somewhere?
Shanerjedi:
Add Ben on a speeder and have him give that dragon call and then have him swoop in do a CG backflip off the bike, and then whip out his saber and start taking out Tuskens.
Now you know as well as I do that some people will think that's a fantastic idea.
But you've got me thinking and I'm going to go back and improve some classic movie entrances in a similar fashion...
Remember the brooding, shadowy entrance of Max von Sydow in The Exorcist? Not any more you don't. That old fella is gonna come flying in over the rooftops on a speeder bike up to those gates, grinding that engine and scaring the shit outa that demon. No mysterious entrance for Father Merrin any more, no sir. Now we know he means business.
Mary Poppins? Umbrella? Haha, oh no, no, no, no, no.
Ghost:
Could Luke and Bens conversation be moved to later in the movie somewhere?
You can try putting it at various points in the movie, but it has to come sooner than later. Either at the start or roundabout where it is already. If it can be made to work, then the beginning would help sell Luke's plausibility as a Jedi.
Darth Solo bites his tongue again.
3PO going to Jabbas palice could do with a futher re-do. Maybe put the droids on a narrow ledge leading upto the palice . Add a few hundred foot drop on the left hand side (even i can do that) and it makes the entrance more precarious (i suffer from vertigo)
Ghost said:
Could Luke and Bens conversation be moved to later in the movie somewhere?
i mentioned it years ago in SSWRs thread, but endor is a possibility.
Darth Solo said:
3PO going to Jabbas palice could do with a futher re-do. Maybe put the droids on a narrow path leading upto the palice . Add a few hundred foot drop on the left hand side (even i can do that) and it makes the entrance more precarious (as i suffer from vertigo)
Again, what for? It has absolutely no bearing on the plot whether their journey to the palace was easy or not. The only reason we see them approaching at all is to establish the Palace and inform the audience what the situation is. Adding something like you suggest is distracting from the function of the scene.
Darth Venal said:
Shanerjedi:
Add Ben on a speeder and have him give that dragon call and then have him swoop in do a CG backflip off the bike, and then whip out his saber and start taking out Tuskens.
Now you know as well as I do that some people will think that's a fantastic idea.
But you've got me thinking and I'm going to go back and improve some classic movie entrances in a similar fashion...
Remember the brooding, shadowy entrance of Max von Sydow in The Exorcist? Not any more you don't. That old fella is gonna come flying in over the rooftops on a speeder bike up to those gates, grinding that engine and scaring the shit outa that demon. No mysterious entrance for Father Merrin any more, no sir. Now we know he means business.
Mary Poppins? Umbrella? Haha, oh no, no, no, no, no.
Ghost:
Could Luke and Bens conversation be moved to later in the movie somewhere?
You can try putting it at various points in the movie, but it has to come sooner than later. Either at the start or roundabout where it is already. If it can be made to work, then the beginning would help sell Luke's plausibility as a Jedi.
Hahaha!
Darth Venal said:
Darth Chronus said:
Darth Venal said:
Ghost said:
The only way Luke on a speeder bike would make sense is if he and Obi-Wan have their conversation in Ben's hut. Then from there have him ride a speeder bike across Tatooine. With a lot of editing, that could be an ok possibilty.
But I would rather have a pretty CG scene of Luke flying in and across Tatooine.
Wow, I'm feeling a rather big generational gap between the two of us.
I think I'm gonna agree with Ghost on that - and I hope that me being a 19 year old guy has nothing to do with that :)
It probably had a lot to do with that, but I don't mean that to patronise you. In the 19 years you've been growing up, movies have changed a lot because of CG, and in many ways it's for the worse.
Like any tool, CG can be used effectively and it can be used unsuccessfully, but too many filmmakers have dumbed down to ONLY showing pretty CG stuff, at the expense of character, story and so on. Movies that use CG only to augment those essential qualities are welcome, those that don't are, for a lot of people, unwelcome. What good are beautiful images within a movie if all they are doing is wasting time? Beautiful CG I can appreciate, but when it's getting in the way of a story, I don't want to see it.
I dare say nearly everyone in this industry I've ever worked with feels the same. And also the deep frustration when their work is rendered dramatically impotent.
I can see what you mean dude. There have been a lot of bad, crappy films for the almost-2 decades that I've grown up (and a lot of them have invested a huge amount on CGI). However I'm glad to see that certain films have become classics in their own right because they had great CGI effects as well as a great story that the effects didn't get in the way of. Terminator 2 is a great example - I wasn't old enough to appreciate it when it came out being a baby, but when I did see it, I thought it was great. I was 10 when Gladiator came out, but I caught it on VHS and thought it was pretty cool (since I wasn't allowed to go and see a '15' rated film at the cinema obviously). 'Toy Story' and 'Batman Forever' must have been the first films I watched on the big screen (aged 5). Toy Story was obviously 100% CG animated and I loved all of it (it's not here as an argument to your reasoning - I'm actually talking about my childhood days now, sorry) and Batman Forever was pretty cool too (in fact I still like that film, despite it's colourfulness compared to Burton's films - and Nolan's gritty realism).
Ok, I'm going off on a tangent - but the last 20 years in film have been pretty good overall, but it probably may not match the grandeur of the 1980s.
Anyway in other news.....200TH PAGE DUDES! LET'S PARTY!
Tayyab
The only thing I think could use some enhancement would be the classic matte of the droids approach. Maybe more dunes around it or something? Other than that, I don't think those scenes need anything extra.
Definitely no birds flying from the rooftops of the palace or circling above.
ben_danger said:
okay, im going to start posting this stuff here as i think adywan may want to keep the ESBR thread clean, and this one is experimental enough.
thanks to davnes for uploading the holday special cartoon. i had a fiddle around in final cut to begin with, and was pleasantly surprised how much the quality was improved by just adjusting the sharpness and brightness/contrast. this wasnt possible with the youtube versions.
comparisons: (editted on left, original on right)
....forgive the stupidly big image..... i have shrunk it down for the forum, but click to see better detail.
Great job! Thought the KCCI image quality is great, that does show it was a bit on the dark side.
ben_danger said:
comparisons: (editted on left, original on right)
What's Dr. Robotnik doing in a Star Wars cartoon? :D
TV's Frink said:
Ganamae said:
In TPM he opens the pod races and everyone loves (?) him but later he seems more like a boss that is living the good life away from things and the Empire.
rcb said:
i think the reason he was such a popular character in TPM, was because, it was Episode I. just the fact u could see him in a new star wars movie was exciting.
I think Ganamae meant that everyone in the movie loved him - i.e. the crowd went wild when he was introduced. I don't really know anyone in real life who loved him in TPM.
Unless I've misunderstood one of you...
You are correct here Frink :D Right on the nail !
Star wars: Revisited. is now on facebook :)
http://www.facebook.com/swrevisited
These movies arent just 80's movies anymore, there a part of a saga. In 20 years, these movies will be considered as a saga, not classic 80's movies.
I don't know why you guys are so afraid of adding CG to an alredy strong plot. Cleaning things up would greatly enhance viewing and make them feel new. I personally don't want too much CG, but the end space battle needs alot of improving.
It is the only space sequence to look fake. The sail Barge needs a ton of improving and I wouldn't be sad to see it totally cut from the movie (it obviously needs to be there but it is the worst battle in all the movies)
Hopefully someone with a gunner costume would donate themselves to non-recycled camera shots, if not maybe mashing up foregrounds and backgrounds could make something that looks at least a bit different (both of these images look like Death Star Air guitar):
Bingowings said:
Hopefully someone with a gunner costume would donate themselves to non-recycled camera shots, if not maybe mashing up foregrounds and backgrounds could make something that looks at least a bit different (both of these images look like Death Star Air guitar):
Yeah there's no need to see the exact same sequence of shots again. We already saw them twice in ANH.
Maybe just switch up the backgrounds? This is supposed to be a larger DS so maybe it should have a different method of firing?
Further to my comments earlier about the briefing, it might make sense to have some of the attendees by holograms (the fleet is big and presumably some of the people needing to be briefed would be also needed on their ships at the same time).
It might be easier to put Doddona Kebab etc in as holograms than to stitch their heads onto other actors bodies (it looked very fake in the PT).
The holotable might be able to project out as well as up so act as the holographic hub for the whole meeting.
There are also some astrodroids around which could project some extra characters in.
It might also be nice to have some ANH style Alderaanian troops around (the end celebrations seemed to make out that they were not specifically Alderaanian uniforms and it would be a nice continuity nod).
I hate the Rebel General outfits but I can't see there being anything that can be done about those.
Anybody want to give this a go as I'm a bit rushed off my feet at the mo (I did manage to tinker a bit with my previous mockup if you flick back a page but it still looks a bit crap).
shanerjedi said:
Bingowings said:
Hopefully someone with a gunner costume would donate themselves to non-recycled camera shots, if not maybe mashing up foregrounds and backgrounds could make something that looks at least a bit different (both of these images look like Death Star Air guitar):
Yeah there's no need to see the exact same sequence of shots again. We already saw them twice in ANH.
Maybe just switch up the backgrounds? This is supposed to be a larger DS so maybe it should have a different method of firing?
Could it be a good idea to contact the 501st for some help here? I am sure the UK battalion would offer some help, then again they like donations...a few pounds their way might help them to help Adywan with this..perhaps all they need is a mention in the credits :)
Star wars: Revisited. is now on facebook :)
http://www.facebook.com/swrevisited
Ghost said:
These movies arent just 80's movies anymore, there a part of a saga. In 20 years, these movies will be considered as a saga, not classic 80's movies.
I don't know why you guys are so afraid of adding CG to an alredy strong plot. Cleaning things up would greatly enhance viewing and make them feel new.
That's not what I was saying. I was saying that no matter what you do, these movies will always look and feel like they were made when they were. There is absolutely no getting around that, it's beyond the ability of any fan editor, any editor period, to change the feel/style of the movie with the available material. The only way to do that is to totally reshoot it.
As for adding CG to an already strong plot, well, you said you'd like a pretty CG scene of Luke adding. Well, for what? If it doesn't add anything to the plot, it shouldn't be included. If you don't get that, then there's no point discussing it. The point I was making was that CG or any FX are totally pointless if they aren't necessary to the story. Us seeing Luke travelling across a desert might be beautiful, but it has to be necessary to the plot. And it isn't.
Darth Venal said:
Ghost said:
These movies arent just 80's movies anymore, there a part of a saga. In 20 years, these movies will be considered as a saga, not classic 80's movies.
I don't know why you guys are so afraid of adding CG to an alredy strong plot. Cleaning things up would greatly enhance viewing and make them feel new.
That's not what I was saying. I was saying that no matter what you do, these movies will always look and feel like they were made when they were. There is absolutely no getting around that, it's beyond the ability of any fan editor, any editor period, to change the feel/style of the movie with the available material. The only way to do that is to totally reshoot it.
As for adding CG to an already strong plot, well, you said you'd like a pretty CG scene of Luke adding. Well, for what? If it doesn't add anything to the plot, it shouldn't be included. If you don't get that, then there's no point discussing it. The point I was making was that CG or any FX are totally pointless if they aren't necessary to the story. Us seeing Luke travelling across a desert might be beautiful, but it has to be necessary to the plot. And it isn't.
Ghost
Do people watch the movies because of the story and characters with cool shit thrown in or for the cool shit with story and characters thrown in?
That's not why these movies are still popular.
Watch an fx reel if you want some fx porn.
Bingowings said:
Further to my comments earlier about the briefing, it might make sense to have some of the attendees by holograms (the fleet is big and presumably some of the people needing to be briefed would be also needed on their ships at the same time).
It might be easier to put Doddona Kebab etc in as holograms than to stitch their heads onto other actors bodies (it looked very fake in the PT).
The holotable might be able to project out as well as up so act as the holographic hub for the whole meeting.
There are also some astrodroids around which could project some extra characters in.
It might also be nice to have some ANH style Alderaanian troops around (the end celebrations seemed to make out that they were not specifically Alderaanian uniforms and it would be a nice continuity nod).
I hate the Rebel General outfits but I can't see there being anything that can be done about those.
Anybody want to give this a go as I'm a bit rushed off my feet at the mo (I did manage to tinker a bit with my previous mockup if you flick back a page but it still looks a bit crap).
Are these the blockade runner dudes with the vests and big helmets?
I would say yes as I always liked those dudes, but RotJ is like one big continuity nod. We see almost everything from the previous films thrown up on screen.
shanerjedi said:
Darth Venal said:
Ghost said:
These movies arent just 80's movies anymore, there a part of a saga. In 20 years, these movies will be considered as a saga, not classic 80's movies.
I don't know why you guys are so afraid of adding CG to an alredy strong plot. Cleaning things up would greatly enhance viewing and make them feel new.
That's not what I was saying. I was saying that no matter what you do, these movies will always look and feel like they were made when they were. There is absolutely no getting around that, it's beyond the ability of any fan editor, any editor period, to change the feel/style of the movie with the available material. The only way to do that is to totally reshoot it.
As for adding CG to an already strong plot, well, you said you'd like a pretty CG scene of Luke adding. Well, for what? If it doesn't add anything to the plot, it shouldn't be included. If you don't get that, then there's no point discussing it. The point I was making was that CG or any FX are totally pointless if they aren't necessary to the story. Us seeing Luke travelling across a desert might be beautiful, but it has to be necessary to the plot. And it isn't.
Ghost
Do people watch the movies because of the story and characters with cool shit thrown in or for the cool shit with story and characters thrown in?
That's not why these movies are still popular.
Watch an fx reel if you want some fx porn.
I for one can feel the emotion in the OT - that's mainly why they have endured for so long. The themes in the trilogy are powerful and even thought-provoking (the latter rings true in Empire). I know how you feel shanerjedi.
I'm gonna get verbally abused for saying this - but I can feel some of that same emotion in the prequels (which builds up quite nicely in ROTS). However some of the things mentioned in the prequel novels could have been portrayed on screen and missed their chance at making them more potent.
I digress lol; I suppose one can't be that amped on CGI :D
A bit of news: Revenge of the Sith finally makes it's terrestrial TV premiere (or free to air TV) in the UK. ITV are doing their yearly Star Wars 'marathons' (they're actually one movie each Saturday) and it's gonna kick off next Saturday - with The Phantom Menace :)
Tayyab
Chronus, you are perfectly entitled to enjoy the prequels as is anyone else. I might actually enjoy them too. But the idea is that you don't change things up story-wise or character-wise just so you can have another fx shot.
I mean, these films need all the character they can get. They're not character pieces and as such need the subtle moments, the visual moments(like Luke walking into the palace) that help define character, to get those ideas across.
You lose those subconscious triggers if you just examine the film at face value.
That's why some of today's films with fantastic fx don't work and some with good, but not great, fx do. It's all in how it's put together, under the surface and with story, pace, and dialogue, not just the cool stuff that's cool because it's cool.
Actually, some of the best movies now have great fx. Like the Batmans, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, just a few of them.
Mabey we have a misunderstanding. All the pictures that people are posting here are CG right? Or fx?
Like 005's wishlist. Those are the changes I want.
