clone wars season II — Page 7

Vaderisnothayden said:

Gaffer Tape said:

That's not saying I haven't enjoyed EU, but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves.

 "but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves."

Yep. That's all the EU is.

 I don't follow. If you enjoy it, how is it any different than any other entertainment venture out there competing for your dollar? If George Lucas slavishly followed every idea laid out in every novel, comic, and RPG supplement, would that somehow make it NOT a 'marketing push?'

Would ROTS have been one ounce better if it was more closely tied to the adventures of Jangotat, or the BattleStar Space Medics? Would the new Clone Wars be any more enjoyable is the prodcucers made sure it tied in better with the 1970's newspaper strip?

What would be the product Lucasfilm could produce that is somehow NOT a marketing push?

TheBoost said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Gaffer Tape said:

That's not saying I haven't enjoyed EU, but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves.

 "but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves."

Yep. That's all the EU is.

 I don't follow. If you enjoy it, how is it any different than any other entertainment venture out there competing for your dollar? If George Lucas slavishly followed every idea laid out in every novel, comic, and RPG supplement, would that somehow make it NOT a 'marketing push?'

Would ROTS have been one ounce better if it was more closely tied to the adventures of Jangotat, or the BattleStar Space Medics? Would the new Clone Wars be any more enjoyable is the prodcucers made sure it tied in better with the 1970's newspaper strip?

What would be the product Lucasfilm could produce that is somehow NOT a marketing push?

I don't follow. If you enjoy it, how is it any different than any other entertainment venture out there competing for your dollar?

Not the real thing. It's ersatz Star Wars. I prefer to stick with something that's a bit more real (even if it's just following something that only has the significance of the modern Lucas ventures). When something's just the subordinate merchandising supporting the main product, well... If it's not obvious to you how it doesn't count then I don't know how to explain it to you. I'm not interested in something that's not the real thing or doesn't have some sort of relevance. Life is too short for that. I can spend my time on other things rather than on NJO books or whatever. There are so many other things I can do with my time. Even just in the category of reading material -I can, for example, read fiction by Liam O'Flaherty or Kafka or literature from ancient Sumeria or Ugarit or read the Silmarillion or read about history or anthropology or psychology or politics or current events or any number of other relevant subjects or authors, fiction and nonfiction. When I read fiction, I can read original fiction rather than stuff by writers writing for a big company to support a franchise. I don't have to waste my time reading the non-original fiction churned out solely to make a buck off fans of a franchise long after such franchise passed its best before date. If you want to read it, feel free to. It's your time, your choice. I don't judge you. I won't claim to understand your choice, but it's your choice to make. Just as it's my choice to not waste my time with it.

If George Lucas slavishly followed every idea laid out in every novel, comic, and RPG supplement, would that somehow make it NOT a 'marketing push?'

That's a good question. Arguably yes, because he'd be taking it seriously and respecting it more. It wouldn't just be this money-maker. Because for him to do that he'd have to have a totally different attitude to it and it wouldn't be just this subordinate storytelling, it would be an equal partner in a big collaborative storytelling effort.

Would ROTS have been one ounce better if it was more closely tied to the adventures of Jangotat, or the BattleStar Space Medics? Would the new Clone Wars be any more enjoyable is the prodcucers made sure it tied in better with the 1970's newspaper strip?

Some people would think so. I don't need it tie in with that stuff. I just note that the degree to which the EU is not binding on the Lucas material underlines its irrelevant just-merchandising status. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for Lucas to pay more attention to the EU than he does. In fact, I think I'd prefer if he'd quit paying it any attention at all and ignore it totally like the merchandising it is and do the decent thing and get his employees to quit calling it canon. This is not about whether the Lucas material would be better with added EU. This is about the EU's treatment by Lucas underlining its status and the very nature of what it is. It's just merchandising. It's not the real Star Wars story. Or even what passes for the real Star Wars story nowadays. Or even the subordinate merchandising story that was sold in the age when the real Star Wars story was current and alive to a degree it's never been since.

What would be the product Lucasfilm could produce that is somehow NOT a marketing push?

Some movie or tv series that was meant as mainstream Star Wars material rather than subordinate stuff just for making extra cash, something considered by Lucas and Lucasfilm as being on a level with Lucas's own efforts. But I'm not calling for something like that to be made. I'm just noting that the EU is not that.

Maybe you got my previous post wrong. The view that the EU is just merchandising and of lesser or no relevance is a view I strongly believe in, but most of the post was a personal rambling about how I treat it and how I feel, not about how anybody else here should think or act.

Gaffer Tape said:

  I think The Outrider in Star Wars is harmless enough in theory (except that it's a SE change and therefore shouldn't have been made in the first place--I'm referring to the practice of tiny, innocuous cameos in general), but it does present a mixed message that causes scratching of heads.  It's like Lucas is saying, "Well, I don't know what this ship even is because I haven't read this book, but I'm sure if I have it wink at the camera and can get my people to add a new entry into the databank, it'll sell a few more toys."

The Outrider in ANH SE. Yeah, that really pisses me off, because I consider Shadows to be a unholy piece of jumped-up fanfiction stuffed into the Star Wars saga and Bash Fendar to be a Mary Sue and Han ripoff. I don't think EU belongs in the OT, even less than other changes (I'm even pissed off about EU stuff being put in the ROTJ radio drama, because the radio dramas and novelizations were being taken more seriously than the rest of the EU). But Lucas knows something about the Shadows story. He must have read some of it (read the comic? (Sue Rostoni said Lucas reads Star Wars comics) Or played the game?) , because he's said to have liked it. It's even been claimed by a poster here that Shadows was accepted into the Lucas canon and that putting the Outrider into the ANH SE was to cement that, though I've had no external confirmation of that. If Shadows was ever accepted into Lucas's canon, it's probably since been dropped, because when he's talked since then of what's his Star Wars he's mentioned movies and tv shows, not novels, video games and comics like made up Shadows. There was no footnote in his comments saying "oh and I also count Shadows of the Empire". But that doesn't mean he's totally forgotten it either, because apparently they put Xizor in the crowd in the podrace (I didn't spot him, but I'm told he's there -I'm glad I've never seen him) and a track from the Shadows soundtrack was included in the ROTS music.

Can somebody provide a photo of his appearance in that scene, so we can see?

The canon of projects such as the force unleashed and clone wars are clearly higher than EU because of lucas involvement but they have not stated them as G-canon

I wonder about the Farts Unleashed. There's been all this talk of it being "canon", but when Lucas went and described what's in HIS Star Wars (basically the Lucas canon) in 2008 he sure didn't mention it. And the other canon is the Lucasfilm canon, and by that canon most SW video games are canon, not just Farts. Lucas was involved in it's making, but not all that much. There was talk of how Star wars canon was taken into consideration in its making, but that happens with star wars video games generally, so I don't see what's the big fuss. I wonder if it was all hype. How much does Lucas really take it seriously? There is a rumor that stuff from it will appear in the live action series. Maybe that would mean Lucas takes it seriously or maybe it'd just be like him appropriating Aayla secura and Quinlan Vos from the comics -that didn't mean the comics were suddenly a Lucas project.

AxiaEuxine said:

I really enjoyed this last episdoe of the clone wars, pure Star Wars goodness.

 I dug it too. Lots of action, fun fights, no Jar Jar. It felt very Star Warsy.

Why is Asohka back in her jailbait outfit though? Wasn't she wearing something more befitting the dignity of her office and her underagedness for the first few episoes? Something with a midriff and sleeves?

AxiaEuxine said:

I dont think it had a midriff. But the out fit you are talking about was part of her zero-g suit when they went after Bane on board the separatist ship. I perfered the new look myself. More jedi like than what she usually wears

 I agree it looked better.

If you can see a girls belly, does the shirt have a midriff, or lack a midriff?

The battles in the last two episodes were nice but they still suffer from being like a video-game. here come the super-duper tanks!

I wish they wouldn't portray Barriss Offee as such a submissive goody two shoes. I'm sick of all this jedi stiffness. Luminara is more of the same. I hope we aren't supposed to see these people as some sort of ideal.