Well casual viewers coped for 30 years with different coloured light sabres, so I'm not sure we need to go dumbing it down now. If you want to explain things as ostensibly irrelevant as laser colour, where would you stop?
i wouldnt say blue sabres would be dumbing it down, but id like to make the PT look visually ancestrical to ANH somehow. red lasers and blue sabres could be one of many ways of doing that.
casual viewers coped because they just didnt care i guess. maybe theyre better off.;)
oh what a can of worms this website is!
Darth Venal said:
Well casual viewers coped for 30 years with different coloured light sabres, so I'm not sure we need to go dumbing it down now. If you want to explain things as ostensibly irrelevant as laser colour, where would you stop?
Sometimes implying things can have just as much impact on a viewer and their imagination as filling in each and every dot.
Maybe someone needs to just make a Star Wars for Dummies Edition and be done with it already.
Shanerjedi:
Maybe someone needs to just make a Star Wars for Dummies Edition and be done with it already.
Absolutely not!
Transformers for Smarties is the next fanedit I want to see.
Darth Venal said:
Shanerjedi:
Maybe someone needs to just make a Star Wars for Dummies Edition and be done with it already.
Absolutely not!
Transformers for Smarties is the next fanedit I want to see.
To quote Luke in ESB:
"You want the impossible".
And no, Yoda will not help you out and levitate that film out of the swamp.
Damn you, but you're right.
How about The Phantom Menace for Smarties? Star Trek for Epileptics?
Jim Caviezel was hot in that movie. Sorry, but that's about all I got out of it.
I make Richard Dawkins look agnostic.
ben_danger said:
i wouldnt say blue sabres would be dumbing it down, but id like to make the PT look visually ancestrical to ANH somehow. red lasers and blue sabres could be one of many ways of doing that.
casual viewers coped because they just didnt care i guess. maybe theyre better off.;)
oh what a can of worms this website is!
With the blasters, sure. They're massed produced for manufactured armies, clone and droid. You wouldn't expect a lot of variety. Red for regular, blue for ion is fine.
Lightsabers are personalized and I find it hard to believe that Luke would be the first to try green. I was just thinking that if the colors represented different schools of Jedi/Sith philosophy, then the differences between PT and OT would be more understandable. And possibly show what was lost with the Jedi purge.
Windu's purple saber does seem like a dumbing down because all it does is make it easier to pick him out in a fight. So either change his or add more purple so it doesn't seem like a marketing ploy. His character should be able remarkable for reasons other than his favorite color.
Back on topic: would there be a way to give the other council member's more of a role? Right now in the vanilla version, it all seems to fall on Windu and Yoda. Perhaps have Anakin consult with someone other than Yoda about his dream? Spread the blame around a bit?
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." – John Lennon
skye1083 said:
I'm sorry to dig this up again but I thought I'd add my two cents to the lightsaber color debate.
My thinking is that the color of a jedi's lightsaber is a way to indicate who taught them as a padawan. So Luke has green because Yoda has green. Anakin blue because Obiwan has blue. Granted Qui Gon's is green but since he's a more open minded Jedi, he would want his students to decide for themselves. Someone would have to add more purple sabers to show who Windu taught. So there you go - tradition without making it visually dull to watch or turning it into KoToR.
If you want to be really radical about it, make Qui Gon's red, as kind of a visual protest against the idea that color could really indicate a jedi's morality. Since Anakin could kill children without switching from blue, it could be a way to show how gray things were during this time period. I don't think any one will actually do this since it would be very confusing to the casual viewer. But these fan edits aren't really for casual fans.
Honestly, I can understand the argument of the old order insisting that everyone have blue, but would Luke care if everyone had green? I figure he just wanted to distance himself from his father, past and present.
At this point it just becomes a game of 'make up a random explanation."
There is not a single line of dialog or plot point in either trilogy to give the impression that lightsaber color is particuarly important, save the implication that baddies have red (although that's not important enough for Anakin/Vader to make a point of trading his blue saber in).
Consequently, one can say anything they want about lightsaber colors, and any arguments carries just about the same weight as any other, since it's all based on nothing.
My understanding was it was meant to be a simple blue/good red/bad dynamic in the OT, but they needed a green lightsaber to show up in exterior fights against the sky in ROTJ, and in the PT Lucas just didn't give a damn, and let Jackson have a purple lightsaber for no reason, senind a million fanboys into seizures to come up with various explanations.
skye1083 said:
I'm sorry to dig this up again but I thought I'd add my two cents to the lightsaber color debate.
My thinking is that the color of a jedi's lightsaber is a way to indicate who taught them as a padawan. So Luke has green because Yoda has green. Anakin blue because Obiwan has blue. Granted Qui Gon's is green but since he's a more open minded Jedi, he would want his students to decide for themselves. Someone would have to add more purple sabers to show who Windu taught. So there you go - tradition without making it visually dull to watch or turning it into KoToR.
If you want to be really radical about it, make Qui Gon's red, as kind of a visual protest against the idea that color could really indicate a jedi's morality. Since Anakin could kill children without switching from blue, it could be a way to show how gray things were during this time period. I don't think any one will actually do this since it would be very confusing to the casual viewer. But these fan edits aren't really for casual fans.
Honestly, I can understand the argument of the old order insisting that everyone have blue, but would Luke care if everyone had green? I figure he just wanted to distance himself from his father, past and present.
At this point it just becomes a game of 'make up a random explanation."
There is not a single line of dialog or plot point in either trilogy to give the impression that lightsaber color is particuarly important, save the implication that baddies have red (although that's not important enough for Anakin/Vader to make a point of trading his blue saber in).
Consequently, one can say anything they want about lightsaber colors, and any arguments carries just about the same weight as any other, since it's all based on nothing.
My understanding was it was meant to be a simple blue/good red/bad dynamic in the OT, but they needed a green lightsaber to show up in exterior fights against the sky in ROTJ, and in the PT Lucas just didn't give a damn, and let Jackson have a purple lightsaber for no reason, senind a million fanboys into seizures to come up with various explanations.
saber color really is about the look. There's never been a story point behind them. And trust me, Lucas would've included an explanation in the PT if he thought that was important.
Me, I like it as it is now: red, blue, and green. Simple but effective.
Notice I didn't include purple?
Damn you Jules!
Skye1083:
Windu's purple saber does seem like a dumbing down because all it does is make it easier to pick him out in a fight. So either change his or add more purple so it doesn't seem like a marketing ploy. His character should be able remarkable for reasons other than his favorite color.
Yeah, we didn't need help picking him out - he's the black dude! - but there are other purple sabres in the background in the Geonosis arena, I'm certain. Personally, I wouldn't like to see more of them as I don't like how his looks. Never really cared for Luke's green one, either.
Would there be a way to give the other council member's more of a role? Right now in the vanilla version, it all seems to fall on Windu and Yoda. Perhaps have Anakin consult with someone other than Yoda about his dream? Spread the blame around a bit?
I think Ki Adi Mundi gets plenty of screentime. He was a great character too (poor old Silas Carson gets killed three time!). I'm not sure we need to dilute screentime any further for the others. One or two bits of dialogue from the others would have been nice, I guess.
One thing that really DID irk me is that we only ever saw that one side of the Jedi Council chamber through all three movies. Couldn't one of them have been sitting across the other side? That decision renders those scenes incredibly undynamic, always shot the same way. I was sick of seeing it by the second movie, never mind the third.
TheBoost:
but they needed a green lightsaber to show up in exterior fights against the sky in ROTJ
What, because a blue one wouldn't have shown up? We could see a blue one against bright white snow, and I don't recall anything in Jedi that was brighter.
Darth Venal said:
Monica Bellucci was hot in that movie. Sorry, but that's about all I got out of it.
I make Richard Dawkins look agnostic.
*fixed*
Hehehe.
Shanerjedi: I was never entirely satisfied with the Venal quote. But I ran out of edits and had to leave it. Now, with digital technology, I can go back and get it closer to my original vision.
LOL that's fucking funny, man.
Darth Venal said:
Skye1083:
Windu's purple saber does seem like a dumbing down because all it does is make it easier to pick him out in a fight. So either change his or add more purple so it doesn't seem like a marketing ploy. His character should be able remarkable for reasons other than his favorite color.
Yeah, we didn't need help picking him out - he's the black dude! - but there are other purple sabres in the background in the Geonosis arena, I'm certain. Personally, I wouldn't like to see more of them as I don't like how his looks. Never really cared for Luke's green one, either.
Would there be a way to give the other council member's more of a role? Right now in the vanilla version, it all seems to fall on Windu and Yoda. Perhaps have Anakin consult with someone other than Yoda about his dream? Spread the blame around a bit?
I think Ki Adi Mundi gets plenty of screentime. He was a great character too (poor old Silas Carson gets killed three time!). I'm not sure we need to dilute screentime any further for the others. One or two bits of dialogue from the others would have been nice, I guess.
One thing that really DID irk me is that we only ever saw that one side of the Jedi Council chamber through all three movies. Couldn't one of them have been sitting across the other side? That decision renders those scenes incredibly undynamic, always shot the same way. I was sick of seeing it by the second movie, never mind the third.
That is a really good point. Never really thought of it but it would help the dynamics of the scenes.
The main reason Lucas kept the same angle in AOTC though is because it was the same damn footage(with some new CG characters replacing older CG characters). You'd think with ILM at his disposal and an Avid he could've switched it up still.
Dude, The Passion made me puke. Firstly because it was considered entertainment at all, and secondly because I knew a LOT of children were being taken to see it. America is fucked up culturally: Janet Jackson's nipple leads to lawsuits and fears for the children, but Jim Caviezel getting the snot beaten out of him, VERY graphically, for two hours, is family fare?
Something has gone dreadfully wrong somewhere...
Yeah but you're forgetting, one is a graphic morality tale, and the other is a Jew-hating Catholic fantasy movie.
RoccondilRinon said:
Dude, The Passion made me puke. Firstly because it was considered entertainment at all, and secondly because I knew a LOT of children were being taken to see it. America is fucked up culturally: Janet Jackson's nipple leads to lawsuits and fears for the children, but Jim Caviezel getting the snot beaten out of him, VERY graphically, for two hours, is family fare?
Something has gone dreadfully wrong somewhere...
Ill tell you what it is: Christ has become an commercialized industry giant right up there with Elvis.
The Americanized Christ is almost no different 'cept the 'burns.
*steps off soapbox*
Yeah but you're forgetting, one was the King of Men who lived and was taken from us, the other was the mythical son of God.
shanerjedi said:
RoccondilRinon said:
Dude, The Passion made me puke. Firstly because it was considered entertainment at all, and secondly because I knew a LOT of children were being taken to see it. America is fucked up culturally: Janet Jackson's nipple leads to lawsuits and fears for the children, but Jim Caviezel getting the snot beaten out of him, VERY graphically, for two hours, is family fare?
Something has gone dreadfully wrong somewhere...
Ill tell you what it is: Christ has become an commercialized industry giant right up there with Elvis.
The Americanized Christ is almost no different 'cept the 'burns.
I just remembered this:
Tayyab
LOL!
"What are you,a glutton for punishment?"
Haha!
Shanerjedi:
That is a really good point. Never really thought of it but it would help the dynamics of the scenes.
The main reason Lucas kept the same angle in AOTC though is because it was the same damn footage(with some new CG characters replacing older CG characters). You'd think with ILM at his disposal and an Avid he could've switched it up still.
Yeah, he used the plates and greened them all into it for Attack of the Clones, right? Same with the inside of the Naboo ship at the beginning. Lame.
I really do get irked by those Council Chamber scenes. I would try give Yaddle a line of dialogue, or Plo Koo or someone sitting on the other side. Just one line here and there to flip the scene to another freakin' camera point. Lame.
The reason they didn't think of making such a prominent set more versatile was because they were too busy in post adding fucking antennae to the dealer in the nightclub. Because that was obviously more important than, say, blocking out a scene with some fucking imagination.
Tuh.
Darth Venal said:
Shanerjedi:
That is a really good point. Never really thought of it but it would help the dynamics of the scenes.
The main reason Lucas kept the same angle in AOTC though is because it was the same damn footage(with some new CG characters replacing older CG characters). You'd think with ILM at his disposal and an Avid he could've switched it up still.
Yeah, he used the plates and greened them all into it for Attack of the Clones, right? Same with the inside of the Naboo ship at the beginning. Lame.
I really do get irked by those Council Chamber scenes. I would try give Yaddle a line of dialogue, or Plo Koo or someone sitting on the other side. Just one line here and there to flip the scene to another freakin' camera point. Lame.
The reason they didn't think of making such a prominent set more versatile was because they were too busy in post adding fucking antennae to the dealer in the nightclub. Because that was obviously more important than, say, blocking out a scene with some fucking imagination.
Tuh.
Yeah. Digi-Yoda,a few CG guys, and Annie and Obie.
Oh yes, the dealer at the nightclub. He has such a great name: Elan Sleazzbagganno.
Not making that up.
And one thing about that club: why use a shapeshifting villain if you're not going to use it to, oh I don't know, HIDE IN THE CLUB IN DISGUISE?!
shanerjedi said:
Oh yes, the dealer at the nightclub. He has such a great name: Elan Sleazzbagganno.
Not making that up.
I can confirm that. I discovered that awful fact when I first started working on EP 2 cutlists. The "anno" at the end makes him sound kind of alien-y, I guess. I read a review of AOTC somewhere that accused Lucas of letting his kids name the aliens, based on Dexter Jetser or whatever the hell his name was.